Some simple Volibear playability thingies

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Iklo

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny2360 View Post
Please do not promote other threads that do not involve Volibear in here.


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Iklo

Senior Member

12-31-2012

I really hate it when you have a good game, but the champ is considered "bad" so they report you anyway. Just came out of a game with Voli jungle, ratio was 8/10/22. I went full tank and they called me a noob when I selected Voli in the pre game lobby. I get this sometimes, but then I will have a good game and they will forget about it. We lost the game, but I had a good game and didnt take all the kills for myself since I was tank. I hate it when this happens it is like pre Eve remake all over again. Automatic report just for picking a certain champ is ridiculous.


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doubleguac

Senior Member

12-31-2012

I freaking love volibear. One of my favorite champs. I think his biggest problem though is kiting, which has gotten even easier in s3 with furor boots. Right now he's so all or nothing; he rages on enemy champs if he can stick on them, but has tremendous trouble getting to/sticking on the champs he wants to attack. I'd love to see more stickiness on volibear (higher ms buff on q, bigger slow on e), even if it means his damage once he closes in would have to be toned down slightly.

Also, his scaling is all over the place. 0 scaling on his Q, health scaling on his W, a negligible ap ratio on his roar, and ap/as scaling on his ult. His damage types are also all over the place between physical and magic, which makes him harder to build against but also harder to build penetration for. I'd love to see him become more of a true AP bruiser, with health scaling on the bite but ap scaling on Q and a buff to his e's ratio. It could be a really fun alternate build path for him, rather than just going pure tank and relying on his base damage. Right now his itemization is really wonky; doing anything to try to increase his damage always feels like you're building incredibly inefficiently. Even slight buffs to his ap ratios would make it so I could build rylais on him (which seems like it ought to be good for him) without feeling like an idiot.


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Iklo

Senior Member

12-31-2012

I have changed my mind Volty. I like the sound of an AP bruiser too. I think Riot wanted to have something like Jax for Volibear in mind with AS, AD, and AP, but people were confused by him having no AD scaling so it kinda threw everything off. I love the idea of having an AP bruiser Volibear because it would be unique considering there are not many AP bruisers in the game compared to AD ones. This would give the option to go full AP dps build or tanky build while still being viable.

Wits
Rylias
Abyssal Scepter
Rod of Ages
Hourglass
Malady

These items would then work so much better on Volibear and still allow him to keep his bruiser feel, but in AP magic damage rather than AD physical damage. AP Volibear is looked upon as troll right now, but if you could improve upon this in some way then maybe it could work.


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JimMaru

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Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleguac View Post
I freaking love volibear. One of my favorite champs. I think his biggest problem though is kiting, which has gotten even easier in s3 with furor boots. Right now he's so all or nothing; he rages on enemy champs if he can stick on them, but has tremendous trouble getting to/sticking on the champs he wants to attack. I'd love to see more stickiness on volibear (higher ms buff on q, bigger slow on e), even if it means his damage once he closes in would have to be toned down slightly.

Also, his scaling is all over the place. 0 scaling on his Q, health scaling on his W, a negligible ap ratio on his roar, and ap/as scaling on his ult. His damage types are also all over the place between physical and magic, which makes him harder to build against but also harder to build penetration for. I'd love to see him become more of a true AP bruiser, with health scaling on the bite but ap scaling on Q and a buff to his e's ratio. It could be a really fun alternate build path for him, rather than just going pure tank and relying on his base damage. Right now his itemization is really wonky; doing anything to try to increase his damage always feels like you're building incredibly inefficiently. Even slight buffs to his ap ratios would make it so I could build rylais on him (which seems like it ought to be good for him) without feeling like an idiot.
This.

I'm really afraid since Volty mentioned removing his AP ratio...
Volibear's problem is that ALL his damage is base damage, inherent from his Kit (W + Ult synergy) and early game an execute that since it scales off Health makes him hard to kill while getting a huge burst (which is counter intuitive and to some extend a bad design choice that's what makes him so binary).
Building actual damage is awkward since his scaling has weird multiplicative system (AP+AS) or has none at all (AD and Health).
He is easy to kite, so you have to build Tanky early but you will fall off late game since you will have no damage or a weird Ult Dependant trick on a huge cooldown and easy to deny and then nothing else.

He could be a good AP bruiser if changed nicely into it. AD would feel awkward in him.
His Q also feel terrible. Bad base damage and no scaling at all. He could at least gain/keep Frenzy Stacks while using his Q, would make Ganking/Chasing much more efficient. Who cares if you reach an enemy only to look him going away again?


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Häßlich

Senior Member

12-31-2012

I'm just happy to see I wasn't the only one having issues with the beloved bear. Thanks Volty, for your attention on this!


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Iklo

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMaru View Post
This.

I'm really afraid since Volty mentioned removing his AP ratio...
Volibear's problem is that ALL his damage is base damage, inherent from his Kit (W + Ult synergy) and early game an execute that since it scales off Health makes him hard to kill while getting a huge burst (which is counter intuitive and to some extend a bad design choice that's what makes him so binary).
Building actual damage is awkward since his scaling has weird multiplicative system (AP+AS) or has none at all (AD and Health).
He is easy to kite, so you have to build Tanky early but you will fall off late game since you will have no damage or a weird Ult Dependant trick on a huge cooldown and easy to deny and then nothing else.

He could be a good AP bruiser if changed nicely into it. AD would feel awkward in him.
His Q also feel terrible. Bad base damage and no scaling at all. He could at least gain/keep Frenzy Stacks while using his Q, would make Ganking/Chasing much more efficient. Who cares if you reach an enemy only to look him going away again?
Your right that his damage is all base damage right now because no one builds damage on him anymore. Usually Volibear is built as a tanky damage soaker, but there is no alternative because his AP ratios are alright and you need attack speed and CDR to reduce his cooldowns and have better damage output from your ult. In addition, he has no AD ratios which makes people who build wriggles or atmogs on him less threatening because he only autoattacks them for damage. I think he synergizes well with AP utility/tanky bruiser type. I do think his q is the problem though. His e, w, and r work fine, but why no scaling on his q even if just a little? Have lightening shock them when you fling them back adding magical damage to his q.

In a way he would still be hybrid because he would still rely on autoattacks which is AD, but his ult would make it AP making it much more devastating. This as well as the recent nerf to MR as far as gold values makes his damage buffed without changing any ratios in his e or r.

One thing I disagree with in your post is that his q does reset frenzy and does add them.


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Iklo

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hlich View Post
I'm just happy to see I wasn't the only one having issues with the beloved bear. Thanks Volty, for your attention on this!
I still think he is strong, but I hate having to see his mess of ratios. Like many have said before me he has AP, AD, AS, MR, ARM, and HP to look into. Why not remove AD completely and make him into an AP bruiser. Maybe lean him into the AP side by adding a passive effect into his kit similar to malady such as a percentage of his AP goes into his autoattacks? Just thoughts.


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JimMaru

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Senior Member

12-31-2012

Yeah. I agree with lklo

Also, for AP builds, Nashor gives a big chunk of CDR with AS and AP which can all be used by Voli and is Cost effective.


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Iklo

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMaru View Post
Yeah. I agree with lklo

Also, for AP builds, Nashor gives a big chunk of CDR with AS and AP which can all be used by Voli and is Cost effective.
Didn't see that one. Wow, that would be a great item on Volibear. Maybe a Malady passive added to his q for magical damage and then get this and wits for damage output?

I'm trying to build AP in games, but the other team keeps surrendering too early so I will update my builds when I get far enough into a game to see what they can do.