Some simple Volibear playability thingies

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moralSinistral

Member

12-18-2012

Volibear suffers from not having a clear build path. It feels to me he scales only with tankiness and attack speed items. Building AP is futile, and trinity force doesn't feel like a cost effective option. Also, outside your ultimate you're barely relevant against tanky bruisers like Olaf, who's just as tanky with sustain. Volibear just scales in too many directions with absolutely no synergy, and every item build feels ever so incomplete.

A standard tanky/wits end build leaves you with little damage outside your ultimate, and you're easily shut down by tanks with MR. If you want damage outside your ultimate, you have to invest in AD/ArPen, which leaves you sometimes not tanky enough to fully utilize your ultimate. His itemization as of now is just too awkward for my tastes.

Ionic spark was one of the few items I felt was tailored for the bear, but other than anti-kiting options, season 3 hasn't brought better itemization options (Statikk Shiv certainly hasn't helped).


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Rowanoake

Senior Member

12-18-2012

I'm so excited about the redposts! i can't even be constructive right now, just dancing! ^_^


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Weegee7

Senior Member

12-18-2012

I like him best as a tanky DPS jungler. Hope he can be good that way.


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Iklo

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralSinistral View Post
Volibear suffers from not having a clear build path. It feels to me he scales only with tankiness and attack speed items. Building AP is futile, and trinity force doesn't feel like a cost effective option. Also, outside your ultimate you're barely relevant against tanky bruisers like Olaf, who's just as tanky with sustain. Volibear just scales in too many directions with absolutely no synergy, and every item build feels ever so incomplete.

A standard tanky/wits end build leaves you with little damage outside your ultimate, and you're easily shut down by tanks with MR. If you want damage outside your ultimate, you have to invest in AD/ArPen, which leaves you sometimes not tanky enough to fully utilize your ultimate. His itemization as of now is just too awkward for my tastes.

Ionic spark was one of the few items I felt was tailored for the bear, but other than anti-kiting options, season 3 hasn't brought better itemization options (Statikk Shiv certainly hasn't helped).
Great post. Like I was saying before, he doesn't scale with anything besides health and resistances essentionally making him a soak of damage, but that is it. He is not a threat to the enemy team once late game kicks in because his ult damage barely scratches at them and his bite only executes them. His utility is lackluster to other champions such as Malphite and Amumu and his damage is lackluster to Olaf, Darius, and Riven. Sure, you can try to build him tanky dps but the fact of the matter is that these champions do his job so much better while still being able to dish out competitive damage for their designed roles. Volibear doesn't seem like he was assigned a role, he seems like a combination of roles that do not work well together, or atleast not as well as the previously said champions. If he was supposed to be a tank then give us more utility through our e and ult and if he was designed to be a bruiser then give us some sort of shield (Riven), sustain (Olaf w), or bully damage (Darius). As of right now Voli has bully damage, but nothing compared to Darius in lane. Think about it Darius hits like a truck with his q which has a lesser cooldown than Voli's w. You could say that Voli's q and Darius' e are similar but they are not because Darius get extra arm pen when Voli gets flat ad ratios with no scaling on his q? Darius and Voli's w and e are matched with utility and damage. Just looking at the facts his design is either no fit for top or his design is being out classed by other champions. Hell, even Riven, Darius, and Olaf and jungle better than Voli also imo.


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Not to mention Guardian Angel kills his damage on squishies ;(


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PenguinPaladin

Senior Member

12-18-2012

I jungle with Voli.

His biggest flaw right now is that he has unreliability stacked on even more unreliability. You use your Q to close the gap, but they might kite you and make you miss the fling. You use E->R/W for damage, but it's difficult to get all three autoattacks off.

Either one of these weaknesses would be fine individually, but they combine poorly. Someone like Shyvana has unreliable gap closing and CC but makes up for it in a lot of reliable damage. Volibear needs to have his weaknesses and strengths compliment each other like this, instead of currently where his weaknesses just make his other weaknesses even more crippling.


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Micromann

Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volty View Post
Yeah, totally not committed to dropping the E skill, was just an idea.

Volibear feels workable in either top or jungle right now, or is at least close to it. Solving his scaling / itemization might be all he needs for top to become strong.
To fix Volibear top,


I feel as though his W's base damage should be increased, while the scaling (with the enemy's missing hp) should be decreased.

As it stands, W is a good finishing move; but it does little else. While mid lane engagements are generally non-existent in the early game, a bit later in they will usually be decided by huge drops in health on one or both sides, from good combos. The top lane, by contrast, consists of usually three or four trades, before one player goes for the kill, in my experience. Volibear simply cannot compete with this! His W does very little damage on medium-to-high health opponents, and he will be starting the "final engagement" at lower health due to his lack of early damage output. The only way for him to win top is a good gank or two.

When the jungler has to babysit one lane, it has rippling effects on the other lanes. Ergo, a Volibear pick will put either the jungler behind or one or both of the other lanes behind.


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AFOM

Senior Member

12-18-2012

You know what I always wondered?

Why is it so important that Voli is an ARMORED bear, when nothing about him has anything to do with his armor?

Voli sounds great, and few things make a team scatter faster than hitting Q and roaring and running at them--but then they just run away and you do nothing unless you have Flash. But then you're trading your Flash for a basic fling initiate, and you still need two more autos before you can use your W.

Why does W need a cast limitation? Elise's Q in spider-form doesn't have a limitation, and hers is a targeted gap-closer with no mana cost.

Nearly all of Voli's kit is tied into autos, but he has no AD scaling, and he has no natural tank to help him stand his ground and fight. He does have (poor) AP scaling, but you'd never build AP items on him, because his cooldowns are huge.

Why is Voli's E worse than Maokai's Q in every way, despite their similar functionality?

Voli's ult needs a boost: in particular, it needs to help him resist CC for the duration, to give him an "armored" aspect. His E's cooldown desperately needs to reduce with levels. If he's going to be based around an execute, he needs to have some usefulness when it's not up. Rengar has a spammy heal, no mana costs, and his W gives him free tank stats--yet Voli is a tank with no actual tankiness and a passive heal which isn't bursty enough to actually be useful when it's triggered (ie. when he's being focused and kited).

I think you could build Voli to be a frenzied teamfighter by giving him a reset on his Q and E on kill or assist. He'll still rely on the execute, but then his other spells will come back up to let him continue being scary. Give him some kind of tank boost on his ult (maybe even something like a passive +5% / 10% /15% bonus armor), and/or give him CC reduction since all he can do is run at you and auto. I'm okay with it being somewhat tricky for him to catch you, but he needs to be scary when he does.


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moralSinistral

Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFOM View Post
I'm okay with it being somewhat tricky for him to catch you, but he needs to be scary when he does.
Agreed. Weaknesses need counterplay too. If Darius can crush face when he catches someone, why can't Volibear?


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UnbearableBears

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Volibear's W needs to be toned down so we can make progress with him in other areas. Weaken the 1% more damage for every 1% missing part and buff the base damage part of it.

Volibear's E is just flat out boring. It's probably the only skill that feels more exciting to use against Minions than it does against champions. Why would champions slow down if an armored bear was chasing them and yelling at them. Also the damage on it past mid game once enemies get magic resistance is non-existent. I would recommend redoing this skill.

Volibear's R just feels really meh. While I love the idea of an armored bear shooting lighting, the ultimate on him just feels useless for an ultimate mid game and onward. If Riot wants to keep this skill, can we at least add a passive to it that is still useful to him lategame. Perhaps increased Health per rank or Ionic Sparks's passive attached to him.

Also, not surprised at all to see Ursa Arçadius and Pix Allorim in this thread. Good to see you guys here. :P