Some simple Volibear playability thingies

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Arctic Bro

Member

12-18-2012

Bot support
Tank vs cc heavy foes
Tanky dps vs fair teams


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KevinDelMarr

Senior Member

12-18-2012

What about the idea of making his Ultimate a toggle? Pay some mana (maybe even health) for every AA to gain a boosted effect. His Ultimate feels a little lackluster, it requires AP to gain bonus damage for what is basically an Ionic Spark, not sure what other people think of this ability. A toggle might make it unhealthy, since it might be one of those "if too weak per strike it's worthless overall, too strong per strike and it's OP". it could be "(Toggle on) pay 20 mana and 10 health per strike, costs 4 additional mana per consecutive strike, stacking up to 5 times) Since you're building health it could be like an Olaf type of gameplay, stack health so you can continuously use your Ult


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volty View Post
A lot of good discussion already! But also a lot of varying points of view.

I agree that understanding our desires for role and lane will be helpful. If you reply I request that you state your preference for lane (e.g. top, jungle, lane support) and role (e.g. tank, fighter, melee dps).

I will consider and do more research tomorrow.
There's a few interesting combos you could do though.

For example you can take the Leona route and make Volibear a bot lane support/tank (but he'd probably need an extensive rework for that).

I think if you want him to be a stable jungler he should be a fighter, and his toplane could be a single target version of Amumu (a tank that deals a lot of damage if left unchecked).

But the first thing that I think should be looked at is his damage hybridization. His Q and W deal physical damage while his E and R do magical damage. The only ability that's worth putting any money towards scaling (without a gimmicky build) is W which means building health.

(I'd like to go off on a tangent here about health-scaling damage being almost as impossible to balance as old Pantheon but I'll save that for a later time)

There are a few ways to treat this. If you want Volibear to become a fighter you could rework his W scaling so it's like 7.5% of your HP and X amount of your AD/AP and drop the AP scaling on his E or give him reason to build AP (a slight duration increase on his Q / ult perhaps?). This would keep his hybridness. Or you could get rid of the AP side of Volibear (or the AD side of Volibear).

I can also think of a number of threatening ways you could make him a viable Mid laner, not dissimilar to Talon, minus the gap close while being tankier.

I think his home should either be the jungle or top lane though to keep with what he is right now. But a magic damage fighter or tank seems better (I'd go for a panther Melee Carry but a bear running around at the speed of sound slicing people's faces off quickly doesn't seem right).


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Oznap

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Who would want to jungle Volibear when he is considerably item depended (Gotta tank/tanky dps cause your cc is meh). I played Volibear exclusively as a top laner before Season 3 revamp and from my experience I feel hes more of a tanky dps brusier then a real tank. In teamfights I either focus bashing on the Ad range carry or bashing on the nearest champion (when Ad carry was too far away/CC on me was too much). I felt more like Singed and yet more like any tanky dps at the same time.

Tl;tr I didn't really feel like a tank when playing volibear, I would try to be like Singed or Teemo only to act like a tanky dps in the end.


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oznap View Post
Who would want to jungle Volibear when he is considerably item depended (Gotta tank/tanky dps cause your cc is meh). I played Volibear exclusively as a top laner before Season 3 revamp and from my experience I feel hes more of a tanky dps brusier then a real tank. In teamfights I either focus bashing on the Ad range carry or bashing on the nearest champion (when Ad carry was too far away/CC on me was too much). I felt more like Singed and yet more like any tanky dps at the same time.

Tl;tr I didn't really feel like a tank when playing volibear, I would try to be like Singed or Teemo only to act like a tanky dps in the end.
One thing I'd like to see changed is his similarity to Singed.

When he first came out he was described as "a ****tier Singed with a broken W"


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Bump


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volty View Post
I've gone through a bit of this thread tonight. You guys, Ursa Arcadius and friends, are raising some great points. I'd like to improve Volibear. The front runner issue for me is to resolve how R's cast time feels bad, because standing still to cast is directly counter to the melee gameplan.

Two possibilities immediately present themselves:

1. Remove the cast time. (Boring but direct.)
2. Make the spell worthy of a cast time. This could be by adding another mechanic, like a material chunk of upfront PBAoE damage. Could even collapse the E into the R as a single (cast-time) spell and make a new E.

Thoughts?

Sorry I haven't had been responsive to this thread. Let's see what we can accomplish together!

The thing is, his e being rolled into his ultimate is a little bit weird since fearing minions is something you want to do in lane when going in for harass rather than when you activate your ultimate in a big teamfight. If you're considering keeping the fear at all, that is. It's a pretty unsatisfying ability overall.

You've hit the nail on the head with his ultimate not feeling like it's worthy of the cast time. It doesn't matter if you do under the hood changes like upping the damage, it just doesn't feel like an ultimate. Maybe it's the fact that ionic spark did pretty much the same thing, so any champ could have volibear's ultimate provided they were willing to spend 2k gold. It also doesn't mesh well with his other abilities. With draven for example, if you toss out your ultimate and it's about to miss, you can use stand aside to knock enemy champs back into its path, or use blood rush to reposition yourself such that you put the enemy back into its path. With voli ult, the only real synergy is with his w which provides attack speed, but even that's pretty weak synergy.

I dunno, just my two cents about voli. I enjoy playing him, especially his q, w, and passive, but I sometimes don't bother using his ultimate and I use his e only for the slow, never for the fear.


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Jolan

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

I really wanna play Volibear as a Fighter that can either jungle or top lane. With the recent nerfs to defensive items as well as buffing AD and AP items, I feel that he can no longer go 100% defensive and still do...well, anything. His offensive scaling and overall attack power feels extremely low and non-threatening. He's a bear, you should be afraid of bears in melee range OUTSIDE of a mediocre fling. He needs to be feared like, say, a Jax, or a Blitzkrank.


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Stinkstiefel

Member

12-18-2012

I really like volibear as he is and wouldnt want to change much about his kit... just get rid of some of the bull**** the op mentioned before. like sometimes u fling people away from u, casttime on ult unnecessary.. and maybe a little range increase on his w would be nice.
I mostly play him top lane, and there are a lot of current toplanes u just brutally murder already.
I dont really like the comparison to singed... singed is sustained dps and quite tanky and u dont really catch him... voli is not nearly as tanky, gets into your face and wants to take a bite at your head, while dealing insane amounts of dmg during his ult (and this really has a fair cooldown). sadly he has like no scaling at all except for obviously attackspeed so he falls off hard, but thats just the trade for being an early/midgame monster.
I dont really see him getting suddenly op just because his ult works a bit smoother and his q actually doing what it should do. a range increase on w is debatable.. i mean how far can u lean over and still take a good chomp (reduced dmg the further away your target, like an extra 50 range and in that area 20% reduced dmg? just a spontaneous idea)


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Jamesonw

Member

12-18-2012

Put some thought into this volty. I think your proposition of folding E into R would probably be the best start. But then to come up with a new E.....

So I think the best thing about volibear is how his Q and W abilities look and feel like what a bear does. It runs wrecklessly at its prey and then bites a chunk out of it. So to continue this feel, the new E would be a lunge that thrusts both of volibears paws into the ground in front of him. A similar mechanic to nidalees pounce that lunges him in the direction he is facing. I got this idea from polar bear hunting when they bash their paws into the ice looking for seals. Here is a video to show what I'm thinking (skip to 1:10) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nrr7nZVdQQ .

Now what this ability does. He lunges in the direction he is facing crashing both of his paws into the ground in front of him doing some damage. The area around this becomes a conductance field empowering volibears basic attacks and abilities increasing their damage slightly.

This ability allows him to clear waves, provide his jungle with some aoe, and add a touch more sticking power. And you get to feel like a wild bear smashing things.