Some simple Volibear playability thingies

First Riot Post
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Rowanoake

Senior Member

11-18-2012

I will also bump by posting my concerns about Voli in season 3:

I am hopeful Season 3 will be kind to Volibear. the changes that Riot seems to be making, particularly Voli's recent little buff, look to make him a stronger jungler. I've always had problems with jungling in general, and with Voli especially, so I'd like to see him succeed on the map.

What I'm really nervous about is what's happening in top lane. In season 3, Riot is trying to make it harder to gank, so there will be less snowballing for ganked lanes, and more disasterous results for failed ganks. i've also seen posts about how Riot is trying to move the meta away from passive play, especially with the removal items which promote passivity, like PhiloStone and Heart of Gold.

This direction of development make me worry that top lane will become a dueling lane, almost completely seperate from the rest of the map until teamfights start. Without jungling presence, and with passsive play penalized, the stronger champions may ultimately be champs like Jax, Lee Sin, or Graves, more mobile duelists who won't suffer from also being tankier.
As a top-laner, this is alarming to me. I can understand wanting to deter passive play as a legitimate meta.There is a point where "passive play" becomes "afk", for example, a Karthus sitting under turret and farming. But the changes being made make me worry Season 3 will render champions like Volibear or Garen obsolete. Specifically champions whose strength comes from in-lane sustain, passive farming, and health regen will be shut down and antagonized for for not constantly engaging.

TL; DR -- I see a significant difference between being a passive player and being a sustain champion, but I don't think the new meta makes the same distinction.

Volibear has always suffered from role confusion. I've played him as top, jungle, carry, support, and even tried AP Voli in mid (more viable than expected, btw). If Riot is looking to move him firmly into a jungle role, or anywhere in particular, I'm interested, but still nervous that he is just going to fall through the cracks in favor of other more aggressive champions.

edit:
here is a picture to keep you entertained.


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

11-18-2012

If high mobility and very agressive champs become the norm in top lane, Voli will have to abandon it yeah.

Sadly, I don't think jungle Voli is very strong in S3. He can jungle, I've tried it with a few different builds, but he doesn't add much to his team that other picks don't, and do better. This was a problem in S2 as well. He had good early ganks though. But I'm not sure if he can still press that advantage now. Riot DID want to make them a very risky business after all.

But what I fear the most with him is counter jungling. It's probably going to become a lot more common since some champs can now just breeze through the jungle as before while many others will be now half way dead a lot of the time without any relevant offensive or defensive item that could help in a fight thanks to Machete. There will be blood.

One purely good thing for Voli in S3 though is that you can now laugh at slows with the new masteries and even Boots of Swiftness also add a 15% resistance to it (now viable because there are new, actually worthwhile tenacity items outside Merc Treads).


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Rowanoake

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of Dusk View Post
One purely good thing for Voli in S3 though is that you can now laugh at slows with the new masteries and even Boots of Swiftness also add a 15% resistance to it (now viable because there are new, actually worthwhile tenacity items outside Merc Treads).
This alone gives me hope for Voli in S3 because right now the most damning thing about him is his kiteability. He gets so hardcountered by cc, more so than almost any other champion. If Riot begins to build him out of that, I think he's a very legitimate contender for a spot on most teams. One of Volibear's strengths is that he commits to a fight, and remains a problem for as long as he is alive. He's got great engage, good command of crowds, and good survivability. His weak spot is his inability to disengage from a fight, mostly because he gets kited and ccc'ed so very hard, which means that if goes in and commits to a fight, he's there whether his team is or not. This means if the rest of the team disengages for some reason, Voli dies and the team is then stuck in what is probably a 4 v 5 situation.
Right now, the only real disengage he has is from summoner spells, but if that changes, i think it's a big step in the direction of making him more viable.


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of Dusk View Post
Hurray for 100 pages : D



The build is VERY expensive. But you don't need full build to be effective. I feel generally builds are going to become more expensive because you can upgrade things you couldn't before and there are more items that will fill gaps in builds better, but at a higher price. So if the game goes very late, you're making equipment adjustments rather than spamming elixirs.

My mid game wasn't too bad, but not what I'd call good either. Just OK. I tried to get as much CDR I could and spam sheen. It was a custom game on PBE that I went full build in, so I can't really speak about how this translates into normals and ranked on live since you get such an odd mix of people on PBE (and some bots if in custom), and everyone is trying out new stuff right now instead of playing seriously, at least in the matches I've had.

But yeah, this build can really hurt people if used right and you're sooo tanky! But Wit's End or something really needs to be worked into it because damage is almost entirely from Muramana. It's a lot of damage, but you get it late if you don't try to rush it, but then your tank stats will suffer.

Another idea I had was trying to use Sword of the Divine and a lot of AD items with tanky stats, but I haven't looked into any possible item selection yet, or if you can get your AD high enough to leave a dent yet remain tanky enough to do your thing.



Oh wow you actually nailed it : D I verily support this idea good sir!



I like what I'm seeing, but asking for 100k as a starting point? That's a lot. I know he's trying to put a lot into this game, but it might be better to start smaller and have features like the editor be stretch goals. But I can understand not wanting to make your product less just for the sake of getting it out the door. I'll keep my eye on it!



This. I'm not opposed to him having a new ult, soemone suggested his passive and ultimate switch places and be reworked so he could get stronger survivability and a more constant damage output which I liked. But it's the feeling of pressing R and just running in screaming with your lightning fists up in the air ready to do very, very bad things.
I think I'll have to try S3 items before I judge them with Voli, but just looking at them I can see a few build that might work (Ravenous Hydra? That could be Voli's go to sustaining offensive item). I feel so bad about Lee Sin's new jungle though

SotD might be the trolliest BurstiBear you could ever see

I've always thought resistance shred belonged on the bear, but your idea of the stacks fit in perfectly.

100k for game development is actually really low. Games are really expensive to make, Rob's looking to get some extra help I think. Even if he's not he is dedicating his life over a period of time to make a game (Rob's in a kinda ****ty financial situation too, he dedicates a lot of his time to his website which ultimately doesn't make much money). That's also pretty expensive. I think it's a good amount, enough that it will be funded (hopefully) and not asking too much (in terms of game design).


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowanoake View Post
I will also bump by posting my concerns about Voli in season 3:

I am hopeful Season 3 will be kind to Volibear. the changes that Riot seems to be making, particularly Voli's recent little buff, look to make him a stronger jungler. I've always had problems with jungling in general, and with Voli especially, so I'd like to see him succeed on the map.

What I'm really nervous about is what's happening in top lane. In season 3, Riot is trying to make it harder to gank, so there will be less snowballing for ganked lanes, and more disasterous results for failed ganks. i've also seen posts about how Riot is trying to move the meta away from passive play, especially with the removal items which promote passivity, like PhiloStone and Heart of Gold.

This direction of development make me worry that top lane will become a dueling lane, almost completely seperate from the rest of the map until teamfights start. Without jungling presence, and with passsive play penalized, the stronger champions may ultimately be champs like Jax, Lee Sin, or Graves, more mobile duelists who won't suffer from also being tankier.
As a top-laner, this is alarming to me. I can understand wanting to deter passive play as a legitimate meta.There is a point where "passive play" becomes "afk", for example, a Karthus sitting under turret and farming. But the changes being made make me worry Season 3 will render champions like Volibear or Garen obsolete. Specifically champions whose strength comes from in-lane sustain, passive farming, and health regen will be shut down and antagonized for for not constantly engaging.

TL; DR -- I see a significant difference between being a passive player and being a sustain champion, but I don't think the new meta makes the same distinction.

Volibear has always suffered from role confusion. I've played him as top, jungle, carry, support, and even tried AP Voli in mid (more viable than expected, btw). If Riot is looking to move him firmly into a jungle role, or anywhere in particular, I'm interested, but still nervous that he is just going to fall through the cracks in favor of other more aggressive champions.

edit:
here is a picture to keep you entertained.
You raise some very strong points, I'm going to make a "good points" edit on the front page.

If anyone has some good quotes they have found within this thread that you think belong in this section, please direct me


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Bump


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Rowanoake

Senior Member

11-18-2012

bamp


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowanoake View Post
bamp
P-BAM

<obligatory lower case letters>


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
This alone gives me hope for Voli in S3 because right now the most damning thing about him is his kiteability. He gets so hardcountered by cc, more so than almost any other champion. If Riot begins to build him out of that, I think he's a very legitimate contender for a spot on most teams. One of Volibear's strengths is that he commits to a fight, and remains a problem for as long as he is alive. He's got great engage, good command of crowds, and good survivability. His weak spot is his inability to disengage from a fight, mostly because he gets kited and ccc'ed so very hard, which means that if goes in and commits to a fight, he's there whether his team is or not. This means if the rest of the team disengages for some reason, Voli dies and the team is then stuck in what is probably a 4 v 5 situation.
Right now, the only real disengage he has is from summoner spells, but if that changes, i think it's a big step in the direction of making him more viable.
I know right? I think one shouldn't look too deeply into what Voli is losing with the S3 patch, because there's a lot of new stuff that might not replace the old directly, but there's certainly a lot of cool new items that may change how he is built entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursa Arçadius View Post
I think I'll have to try S3 items before I judge them with Voli, but just looking at them I can see a few build that might work (Ravenous Hydra? That could be Voli's go to sustaining offensive item). I feel so bad about Lee Sin's new jungle though

SotD might be the trolliest BurstiBear you could ever see

I've always thought resistance shred belonged on the bear, but your idea of the stacks fit in perfectly.

100k for game development is actually really low. Games are really expensive to make, Rob's looking to get some extra help I think. Even if he's not he is dedicating his life over a period of time to make a game (Rob's in a kinda ****ty financial situation too, he dedicates a lot of his time to his website which ultimately doesn't make much money). That's also pretty expensive. I think it's a good amount, enough that it will be funded (hopefully) and not asking too much (in terms of game design).
The Hydra is also a very possible damage source for Voli in S3, paired with some tanky AD items like Maw and Atma, I don't see why not!

Shredding do indeed fit him very well, especially with his hybrid damage output. You won't be building any penetration, so having some in his kit helps A LOT. Also with this suggested passive, you get a lot of beef at the start of a fight, and if you get focused you'll weaken the enemy team. I must say, I think this would make Voli a very strong initiator.

As for a 100k budget, oh I know it's low. I'm an indie dev myself

It's just when it comes to kickstarter/indiegogo, you really don't get a lot unless you have a big name and a very large fan base ready to spread the word and open their wallets to you. I see really great games go up and not even make a meagre 5k when they're only asking for 10k. They just don't get the publicity they need.

Unsure if UR fits the bill for a 100k project. Crowd funding has given unbelievable amounts of people hope, myself and friends included, but at the same time, it takes a lot to succeed. But I wish him luck, and I hope when time comes for my Kickstarter, I'll be just as lucky


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of Dusk View Post
I know right? I think one shouldn't look too deeply into what Voli is losing with the S3 patch, because there's a lot of new stuff that might not replace the old directly, but there's certainly a lot of cool new items that may change how he is built entirely.



The Hydra is also a very possible damage source for Voli in S3, paired with some tanky AD items like Maw and Atma, I don't see why not!

Shredding do indeed fit him very well, especially with his hybrid damage output. You won't be building any penetration, so having some in his kit helps A LOT. Also with this suggested passive, you get a lot of beef at the start of a fight, and if you get focused you'll weaken the enemy team. I must say, I think this would make Voli a very strong initiator.

As for a 100k budget, oh I know it's low. I'm an indie dev myself

It's just when it comes to kickstarter/indiegogo, you really don't get a lot unless you have a big name and a very large fan base ready to spread the word and open their wallets to you. I see really great games go up and not even make a meagre 5k when they're only asking for 10k. They just don't get the publicity they need.

Unsure if UR fits the bill for a 100k project. Crowd funding has given unbelievable amounts of people hope, myself and friends included, but at the same time, it takes a lot to succeed. But I wish him luck, and I hope when time comes for my Kickstarter, I'll be just as lucky
Well day 1 hasn't finished aaaaaaand....

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...orgotten-quest

He's already over 20% funded.

MY EXCITEMENT PANTS ARE FIRMLY ON.