[Tanking] How much MR/AR is too much

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Xocolatl

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Senior Member

10-30-2009

Personally, I choose my defense based on how much burst the other team has.
MR and AR are probably your best bet if you have a healer. My rule of thumb is against slow hitters, dodge is a godsend. 20-ish % dodge will get you a long way after you get 50 to 60 armor. This is based on my feeling only though.


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toomad

Senior Member

10-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xocolatl View Post
[...] 20-ish % dodge will get you a long way after you get 50 to 60 armor. This is based on my feeling only though.
Armor becomes better when you get dodge and vice versa. Same with HP. So the best (against physical damage) is to balance those 3 stats.


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Ballcoozy

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Senior Member

10-30-2009

Thanks Fruitstrike. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitstrike View Post

It's linear. The first 100 armor you get is worth the exact same as the next 100 or the 100 after that. Every single point of armor is always worth the same.

Of important note also is that when you have a lot of armor, raising your max HP gives you even more bang for your buck, because each point of HP is actually worth (1 + (armor / 100)) HP.


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Atmosfear

Senior Member

10-30-2009

I find once you've hit about 70% reduction from armor, you're basically capped out considering the diminishing returns. Usually once I've achieved 70%ish, I move on to either getting more MR or getting some health items to increase my beefiness.


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toomad

Senior Member

10-31-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmosfear View Post
I find once you've hit about 70% reduction from armor, you're basically capped out considering the diminishing returns. Usually once I've achieved 70%ish, I move on to either getting more MR or getting some health items to increase my beefiness.
Some people just don't get it that there is no (not even really for dodge!) DR for defensive stats... though you are right about balancing out on the defense stats but that should be obvious and was already said.


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Quinnister

Senior Member

11-01-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
The way the devs have described it, each point of AR/MR is an effective percent of health. 1 AR is effectively 1% more health. Therefore 100 AR is 100% "more health." So the scaling is more linear.

Plus, this doesn't apply to Rammus.
Eh... It's not exactly linear. It depends how you look at it. I would contend that each point of armor or magic resistance has a lower effect. The reduction gained by a single point is lower with every successive point.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u3RKAH7m3W.../Reduction.jpg is my proof.


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Logo

Senior Member

11-01-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanji Watsuki View Post
Eh... It's not exactly linear. It depends how you look at it. I would contend that each point of armor or magic resistance has a lower effect. The reduction gained by a single point is lower with every successive point.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u3RKAH7m3W.../Reduction.jpg is my proof.
It does matter what you are looking at but the relevant metric will give you a pretty close to linear. Saying that armor doesn't scale linearly because going from 100->200 armor gives you less damage reduction % isn't right. Going from 0 to 50 damage reduction is as effective as going from 50 to 75. Both jumps reduce the amount of damage you take by 1/2 compared to what you were taking before.

It does appear according to the graph (which is accurate) there is a bit of diminishing returns on Armor. Going from 100->200 armor should take you from 50% to 75% damage reduction for it to be linear. Instead it only brings you to 67%.


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toomad

Senior Member

11-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanji Watsuki
Eh... It's not exactly linear. It depends how you look at it. I would contend that each point of armor or magic resistance has a lower effect. The reduction gained by a single point is lower with every successive point.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u3RKAH7m3W.../Reduction.jpg is my proof.
You like graphs? now here is my graph proving you wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logo View Post
It does appear according to the graph (which is accurate) there is a bit of diminishing returns on Armor. Going from 100->200 armor should take you from 50% to 75% damage reduction for it to be linear. Instead it only brings you to 67%.
There is no DR on armor...Try link above or ... let's think a bit:

You have 1000hp and 0 armor. So you can take 1000 physical damage until you die.

You get 100 armor which reduces incoming (physical, won't repeat that) damage by 50%. So you can take 2000dmg before you die. 1000more.

-> you gained 1000 hp for 100 armor

Now you go from 100armor to 200armor. 50% to 66.66667% (2/3) damage mitigation. How much damage can you take until you die? 3000.

->Another 1000 more hp for going from 100 to 200 armor.

200 to 300 armor. 66.67% (2/3) to 75% (3/4) damage mitigation. You can take 4000 damage before you die.

->Guess what, this (third) 100 armor increase was worth 1000hp just like the first 100 armor.

Where is any diminishing return in that or how is this not linear??


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

11-02-2009

As Toomad said, the armor and resist scaling is designed so that the actual "value" of armor is the same for 1 point whether you have 100 or 1000. It still gives the same % bonus to survivability.

Many games use this same scaling system - including WoW (armor uses it).

Why? Because it avoids the pitfalls of people having to number crunch.

1 armor will always be equally valuable. It will always be 1% improvement to your health. Since it only affects 1/2 the damage in the game though, you can equate it in "power level" to .5% health buff.

So here's a quick example:

You have to choose between 500 health and 20 armor. Which is better against a well balanced team (in terms of magic/physical damage)?

500 health = 500 health
20 times .005 times your health has to be equal or greater than 500 for the armor to be a better choice.
20 * .005 * X > 500
X > 500 / 20 / .005
X > 25 / .005
X > 5000

So if you have over 5000 health, the armor is better.

If your champion has 3000 health, you should take the extra hp. But if you could get at least 34 armor on an item, that would be superior to the 500 health.

If you're taking on a all-physical team, the 20 armor is going to be "twice as good", and therefore better than 500 health.


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Logo

Senior Member

11-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by toomad View Post
Where is any diminishing return in that or how is this not linear??
There isn't I just did some math wrong in my head without really thinking about it.


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