Mid-Level Play help

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kryowyrm

Junior Member

10-29-2009

Let me start this by saying I'm a noob. I have never played DOTA.

That said I like to think I understand at least the very basics of the game at this point. Last hitting, harrassing the other heroes in my lane, not getting killed by towers etc. Early Game stuff.

Where I seem to have trouble is Mid and Late game. One of two things happens, I can play defensively and keep my death number down, or I play aggressive and get a few kills and die more often.

I get yelled at a good bit for feeding the other team, but no one seems to have any suggestions on avoiding this. I understand why this is important to avoid, but the only way I seem to not die is if I just hang back and snipe a little. Problem is this nets me no kills few assists.

I did a tutorial practice game or two, and while it's commendable that people take the time to show noobs the ropes, the information was pretty basic.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone runs advanced tutorial games or if I'm just doing something immensely wrong.

I usually play corki or rammus depending on if the team needs tanks or not.


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Shizz

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Senior Member

10-29-2009

To me, it doesn't sound like the issue is you, but rather your teammates.

Communication is key! If you are solo-queueing and no one is really "leading" or giving direction, then you're going to have to step up to the plate. Around mid-game is when the team ganking begins. Your team should setup 3-5 man ganks and roam around the map. If you are successfully ganking, even though your team is grouped, you all should be leveling (because you're killing their champs and getting last hit or at least an assist) and getting a good amount of gold. After you've killed at least 3 of their champs, you can proceed to get the Sigils (neutral buffs - Lizard or Golem) or take out dragon for the extra XP + gold.

Basically, it sounds like you guys don't transition into the mid game ganking game well. I've experienced this in many solo queue games and you just gotta talk to your teammates, but be careful of your wording to make them more receptive to your suggested strategy.

I hope at least some of this helps. Good luck!

P.S. About the tutorial type games. Hop onto the public LoL vent and ask some people there. I know Larias used to run some tutorial games and there are a few others who help out the newer players in this manner.


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ghstflame

Junior Member

10-29-2009

mid game is where the "roaming" occurs, people forget their lanes, group up and find the enemies and kill as many as possible and then go kill turrets.

Stay with someone as soon as your level 6-10ish, probably some of the best advice you can have


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Shizz

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Senior Member

10-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghstflame View Post
mid game is where the "roaming" occurs, people forget their lanes, group up and find the enemies and kill as many as possible and then go kill turrets.

Stay with someone as soon as your level 6-10ish, probably some of the best advice you can have
Good point.

Ignore what I said about jungling and killing dragon after killing your enemies.
Pushing should be priority after that! Dragon + neutrals if you have some time after they come back.


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Khamo

Senior Member

10-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghstflame View Post
Stay with someone as soon as your level 6-10ish, probably some of the best advice you can have
good advice. after midgame i would checkout the good players (by the stats) and stick with them. most likely they know what to do. but dont follow bad players (feeders). this will only get you killed too.

also a typical newbie-mistake i see consecutively. after midgame dont lane across the middle river alone, if you dont know how to escape or anticipate a gank. the enemies can easily intercept you with superior numbers, and thats hard to elude. stay on your side of the river and push some other lane instead, or stick with the group.


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Jothki

Senior Member

10-30-2009

At that point you should probably either be attempting to push a lane or roaming around with other people attempting to gank the other team's pushers. Which one you should be doing depends heavily on your champion and the situation on the field. If you're finding yourself too vulnerable to safely solo push, then try to find someone ganking and assist them.

Just remember that someone on your team needs to push. If the rest of your team spends most of their time bunched around the middle, and you spend most of your time pushing top or bottom and occasionally dying, then you're probably being the most effective member on the team, regardless of the k/d/a stats. If you can get a ton of minion kills while doing that, you might even be getting gold and experience faster.

If you are soloing, try to maintain an awareness of the entire map. Since everything is so fluid people will no longer be able to call mias as effectively, so it's up to you to notice when enemies are headed towards your position through the jungle. Particularly observant and/or obnoxious teammates might notice as well and warn you, but don't rely on that. If you can't account for multiple enemies, they're probably converging on you. Back off to somewhere safer until they show themselves.


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Bait

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Senior Member

10-30-2009

well, my recommendation is getting some hp. early-mid game, heroes have very low hp. so even small increases in health makes a huge difference in staying alive.

ap chars stack 2 rod of ages, it lets them stay alive very well.
tanks take on many hp based items like warmog, sunfire cape, and ruby crystal based items
physical dps chars have a hard time surviving mid game. some can benefit from phage based items and get some health. often, the answer is just a regrowth pendant -> philosopher stone.

aside from the basics, lol and other dota-like games require experience. paying attention to mini-map and coordinating attacks are skills that are difficult to master even for very high level players.


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GNOY

Senior Member

10-31-2009

The experience will come to any player who dont fall under "hopelessly retarded" category. You will learn to play better with more practice. Read guides, play practice with friends (very IMPORTANT, cause you will imporve your teamwork skills by playing with friends, which is in most cases a key to successful game), learn advanced tricks and tactics, like baiting/juking etc, try to master some heroes to their full potential - you dont need to master all heroes at once because you will probably do poor with all. Pick some champs who fits your needs and playstyle and try to master them to the point where you can OWN (or at least dont feed and be fully useful to team) with them in most games.


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TenToedPete1

Adjudicator

10-31-2009

the most important thing going from early game to mid-late game is map awareness. An extremely common mistake people make is they stick in a lane, trying to farm, and even pushing beyond the first enemy tower by themselves. The problem is, they may often see experienced players do this safely, yet when they try to do it themselves, find they get ganked by a group of enemies, and have no chance of escape.

Try to keep an eye on the minimap, and keep an idea of where the enemy champions might be. If a champion has been missing from the minimap for a while, chances are they are farming neutrals, and might eye you up, if you are alone. If you are with several allies, you still need to keep track of the whereabouts of the enemy team, either to call to back out if you sense the enemy circling you, or to call warning to an ally on the other side of the map.

If possible when with an ally or two and the enemy appears busy go for the dragon. with 2-3 players you can take him out fast, and the reward he gives (gold + exp) is given to your entire team. If no player/players seem like they are going to step up and lead your team, then you need to try to at least co-ordinate with them, and try to stick around players that seem to know what they are doing.


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Absol

Senior Member

10-31-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizz View Post
To me, it doesn't sound like the issue is you, but rather your teammates.

Communication is key! If you are solo-queueing and no one is really "leading" or giving direction, then you're going to have to step up to the plate. Around mid-game is when the team ganking begins. Your team should setup 3-5 man ganks and roam around the map. If you are successfully ganking, even though your team is grouped, you all should be leveling (because you're killing their champs and getting last hit or at least an assist) and getting a good amount of gold. After you've killed at least 3 of their champs, you can proceed to get the Sigils (neutral buffs - Lizard or Golem) or take out dragon for the extra XP + gold.

Basically, it sounds like you guys don't transition into the mid game ganking game well. I've experienced this in many solo queue games and you just gotta talk to your teammates, but be careful of your wording to make them more receptive to your suggested strategy.

I hope at least some of this helps. Good luck!

P.S. About the tutorial type games. Hop onto the public LoL vent and ask some people there. I know Larias used to run some tutorial games and there are a few others who help out the newer players in this manner.
Oh fail. In solo ques "leading" the team leads to either no1 listening, or every1 telling you that you're bossing them around. Only time they listen if you get the highest score on the team.