One Tier List to rule them all

First Riot Post
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NamKim

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Keep in mind that at my elo (low elo), Urgot and Nunu are considered trash tier bots. Whenever I bring up Urgot being a strong bot, I was laughed at and told that I do not know anything about Dominion.

The further you are away from Sauron's elo, the less accurate his tier list becomes. I am more than sure other high elo players have their own tier list. While they may differ from Sauron's, there are probably a lot of similarities between the two.

It is only because of Sauron's reputation that people see his tier list as "The Tier List."
I mean, he even puts this disclaimer in the second paragraph of his OP.

Quote:
As usual, all tier lists are just opinions of their creators based on their experience and are certainly not absolute reasoning or even a valid argument in discussions. Also, I totally didn't make an alphabetical list of all the champions and use shuffle() on it. Trust me -- I put way less effort into it than that.


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Infirc

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Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
Keep in mind that at my elo (low elo), Urgot and Nunu are considered trash tier bots. Whenever I bring up Urgot being a strong bot, I was laughed at and told that I do not know anything about Dominion.

The further you are away from Sauron's elo, the less accurate his tier list becomes. I am more than sure other high elo players have their own tier list. While they may differ from Sauron's, there are probably a lot of similarities between the two.

It is only because of Sauron's reputation that people see his tier list as "The Tier List."
I mean, he even puts this disclaimer in the second paragraph of his OP.
character power has nothing to do with high or low ELo unless he's a really tricky to play character, honestly i've had the most success with Urgot bot than other botlaners just because of the sheer power of the character, and the stubborness of the sr players i'm paired with
"lol lvl 3 master yi vs lvl 3 garbage tier elemenzts list urgot?, i win *procceed to try to 1v1 me as soon as he leaves base, get stomped and give me his bot 3 minutes into the game*"

Also to those guys that are fighting: with a game that changes so fast and gets so many updates tier lists are always subject to change and things aren't discovered right out the bat excepting some particular cases *cough*cleaver*cough*
i.e do you see Nunu is cheesecake tier botlane now?, he wasn't on cheesecake tier on the first iterations of this List and wasn't considered that strong of a pick if i recall he was t3, but certain high elo Dominion player kept spamming him and assuring the forums that Nunu couldn't lose botlane with different answers from different people finally because of his commitment (or stubborness) everyone started recognizing Nunu as cheesecake botlaner,


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Sauron

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Nunu was more of the case that we tried so many picks to counter him and he's able to counterbuild almost all of them. Nunu might not scale into late game like many other bot laners do, but he's definitely cheesecake up until that point, which is the majority of the game.

Cleaver hasn't really changed Nunu's position much. BFT is available and armor stacking still works for him mostly because of the AS slow.


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Infirc

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Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
Nunu was more of the case that we tried so many picks to counter him and he's able to counterbuild almost all of them. Nunu might not scale into late game like many other bot laners do, but he's definitely cheesecake up until that point, which is the majority of the game.

Cleaver hasn't really changed Nunu's position much. BFT is available and armor stacking still works for him mostly because of the AS slow.
xD, thank you for clarifiyng i actually just remember forum posts of people "intensely debating" stuff about Nunu with infe ed.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Those people were dumb and probably started catalyst Nunu. Normally I will gladly make fun of anything and everything inFe eD does, but the amount of stupid that surrounded how people built Nunu was (and still is) mindboggling.


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Bma

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Senior Member

12-25-2012

The nunu vs morde matchup seems pretty difficult, is there a specific counterbuild there?


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Sauron

Senior Member

12-25-2012

Early spellvamp and always making sure he never gets an isolated Q off, then go BFT, SV and Odyn's. Nunu scales really hard on CDR in 1v1's since his slow lasts for so long, so work a Grail in there somewhere as well (probably early chalice and late upgrade).


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R Sterling

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Senior Member

12-25-2012

So I want to go back to the issue of Nidalee. After playing her for the past week or so, I've been realizing more and more how strong she is.

First, she makes any comp that wants to dabble with multiple AP extremely viable. 2 or 3 AP top including a Nidalee is extremely viable due to the cleanup potential she provides. Set Nidalee up with Brand, Evelyn, Teemo, Annie, or any other burst AP caster, and you can safely take down opponents without having to go out of position.

Second, post level 7, with Q maxed and only 1 or 2 items, Nidalee absolutely dominates the jungle. One trap into a long range spear sets up anyone for an easy execution by nidalee. If they manage to escape, they're going back to base. You're talking 700-800 damage spears at roughly a 4ish second CD.

Speaking of damage. Midgame , with tear, BFT, Void Staff, and perhaps a Witchcap. You're hitting almost 1600 damage spears. Any carry that gets hit is pretty much gone. And if you're in the jungle, or walking in lane towards a node, getting speared is more or less inevitable.

She's also lucky enough to be one of the few champs who can counter build and not lose substantial damage. I fought a Kassawin the other day. I built 2 MR items -- instead of tear, Athenes and a Spirit Visage. After being down 200 points we turned it around. Kassadin did substantially less damage than I did to him (unless I missed spears xD).

It's actually very easy to land spears in Dominion. I've been playing her mid in SR for a few games, and chucking spears between minions is difficult. In Dominion, minions are not a problem in the majority of the map, so landing spears is completely reliant on your ability to land skillshots. And as easily avoidable as spears are, people will still always get hit by them.

I personally view her as a Tier 1ish champ. However she can be categorized as a tier 2 champ due to her difficulty.


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Sauron

Senior Member

12-25-2012

I would never place Nidalee in tier 1 or higher. Those tiers are basically the "These champions are broken here because they're balanced in SR" tiers. Compare the strength and utility of other mages there, Evelynn, Brand, Zyra, and arguably Amumu, and Nidalee does not come close on either the "broken by mechanics" front or the "broken by SR numbers being used" front. Tier 2, on the other hand...

I won't lie in that she's a great solo queue champion like Akali, Elise, Kayle, Talon, and Fizz, or anyone with unexpected upfront burst and a way to escape 1v1's, but AP Nidalee will typically not win a close range fight when forced to it, whereas the comparisons here have a good chance of it. That is the sacrifice her kit made when it took jungle control as a strength. Granted, she won't willingly fight a straight up fight very often since she can kite so much, but being forced away from the typical jungle camp locations is turning her into a speedy Ezreal -- essentially taking her out of her jungle->lane harass role for the duration of the zoning which is probably what the enemy team needs at that time (for capping points usually).

Against organized teams, Nidalee's effectiveness will fall quite a bit. She excels at harass and escape and in pure solo queue games she has the capacity for litterboxing on people due to lack of collapse movements in the jungle, but in organized team games she will fall in effectiveness quite a bit -- down to that of a regular burst mage -- because she has to be in expected places to fire those spears. If there is one thing Nidalee cannot handle well, it is people collapsing on her from 2 directions instead of 1. Keeping Windmill neutral until a second enemy comes from their jungle? No problem, easy flee. Did they come from your side of the jungle? Welp you're screwed unless it's Garen or someone with minimal CC.

The thing is, she's built around kiting so she will always have a very positive KDA ratio, and much like Leblanc and other bursters with escapes this can make them seem better when their weaknesses aren't being showcased because nobody on the enemy team is shutting their strategy down. There's a lot of situations with Nidalee that one can use for argument examples, and she wins most of them -- however Nidalee is a jungle poker so most of these are 1v1's, skirmishes, or other position-heavy situations. I could make a big list of them, or I could go just write a TL;DR and go to sleep since it's 3am on December 25 and just respond later, and other people could give their thoughts on Nidalee too.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I consider Nidalee balanced/strong and I already had half a mind to move AP Nidalee up a bit simply based on what I've seen lately (and because of the reduced number of Hexdrinkers in this meta, it's funny to see people die to her traps), but also that she would never be tier 1 in her current state or on her current numbers. Tier 1 is basically the "If Dominion was League's primary game mode, most of these champions would have been hotfixed" tier. I just can't justify her being on the same level of those guys.

TL;DR I consider Nidalee a balanced champion on the strong side, but she can sometimes seem way better because she's heavily skewed towards particular strategies and fares abnormally poorly with other strategies, on top of high KDA ratios because kiting is her game. I was already considering moving her up to the front of tier 3 or end of tier 2, but she just isn't broken or exploitable like the champions in tier 1. A case could be made for moving further up in tier 2 though. Okay time for sleep.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

12-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
Early spellvamp and always making sure he never gets an isolated Q off, then go BFT, SV and Odyn's. Nunu scales really hard on CDR in 1v1's since his slow lasts for so long, so work a Grail in there somewhere as well (probably early chalice and late upgrade).
As the resident Morde expert I disagree for 1 simple reason - There is no point trying to beat nunu at his own game. Grail and Oydns are pointless and a complete waste of gold, especially the grail. All you need to beat nunu is to be able to 1 shot the ranged creeps while hitting him at the same time. I'd go Rev-BFT-Sweeper-SV-Voidstaff, since stacking mr and no damage just makes you a meal for any passing ad nunu decides to blood boil.