One Tier List to rule them all

First Riot Post
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blackDAILO

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
This list is a guideline and at present highly inaccurate.
.. And what makes you believe that your own opinion is much more relevant?


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackDAILO View Post
.. And what makes you believe that your own opinion is much more relevant?
I'm going to break it all into parts.

1. ChronicleX's post isn't actually wrong. His points are all correct.

2. What makes his opinion more relevant - to him, is that his experiences differ. Different situations make different things relevant. The tier list isn't really relevant to 1,400 Elo players. And even in high Elo, every player has their own experiences and biases (such as ChronicleX looking at everything through the prism of how it affects Mordekaiser). And well, he doesn't even play on NA, so it makes sense there will be discrepancies.

3. The issues with ChronicleX's post were, as usually, that he's arguing for "points", he wants to nitpick and be "correct" over actually communicating with people.

To wit:
i. Sauron said a page earlier that the list is not updated, due to all the changes happening quite rapidly in S3 pre-season, so he's arguing for what had already been said.
ii. As per the above, we can add "In my opinion" before every point, I could have said in my post which he quoted "This is a tier list that purports to cover High Elo, in NA, and doesn't even purport to cover 1,400/1,700 Elo", but that's something I take for granted as a given. I don't really say this list is an objective reflection of the aforementioned...
iii. Neither does Sauron, which says the same thing Sauron does in the opening post.
iv. He just comes off as a *****, but that's of course a subjective claim backed by my own personal biases ;-)


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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
iv. He just comes off as a *****, but that's of course a subjective claim backed by my own personal biases ;-)
Don't worry, it's not just you bro.


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Phourc

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Dat tier 5 exectioner's calling - I can't believe they did that to the item ):


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Sauron

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Right, the OP (original post, not overpowered) is just my opinion in list form. Once upon a time this thread did not exist, and on a slow day I would receive 20+ PMs a day asking my opinion on champions in Dominion.

I've got no problem with people arguing a champion/item's place if they bring in numbers and several likely situations, and the hypothetical situations and variants of it can be explored. This tier list is my opinion so if you want to change it you actually have to put some effort into explaining why; I'm a rather open person.

What doesn't convince me at all is when people just post "X should be this tier because he's so strong" and then run away. I'm sorry but I see this all the time and being human, I consider my own experience the most reliable and therefore I can make exactly the same effort of argument "X shouldn't move because this is where he is."

On topic: Initially I was under the impression other support items were superior to Locket (why shield when you can debuff attack speed or buff defenses, serves same purpose but always active). Unfortunately I have rarely ever seen it used in S3 (for that reason -- everybody gets the other support items) but I'll go give it some shots to see where it stands.


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Stark Midnight

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Good point, I think fiddle should be tier 4 because of his ultimate and tons of CC. He can easily disable a single target, and can silence multiple ones. And his ultimate can win a team fight if he's clever with it. He has alot of problems but i still see him as viable. No one on trash tier which is tier 5 is viable.


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Sauron

Senior Member

12-23-2012

I don't really know why people are referring to tier 5 as trash tier. I have never referred to it as trash tier. Personal skill, ally picks and enemy picks are simply much more important when it comes to those champions, and they have to try much harder/be much better to succeed at the same level of other champs in the tier 2-4 range. The cheesecake and tier 1 champs are just mostly broken.

If you want to see real trash tiers, go look at the balance on Twisted Treeline. If you pick trash tier champs there, you will outright lose the game. Dominion is much more rounded when it comes to the underpowered champions. I don't consider any champion on Dominion to be in an actual trash tier.

That said, Fiddle could stand to be tier 4 in top lane, as he has pretty good zoning in defensive team comps (as do many) and can join the aoe ult team comp (though others will be picked over him for this). The kit he brings to the table is still useful though, even if others are more desirable.


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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

12-23-2012

The thing is, you can't say Fiddles is good just because 2-3 really good players play him sometimes doesn't mean he's strong. Buwberry, Sauron or who ever might do decent with Fiddles but then again they would do decent with pretty much any champion, frogurt in eu plays pretty much only twisted fate and he does really well with him, is TF OP or is it just frogurt that is an exceptional platinum player ? If a low elo person picked Fiddles he'd probably be useless and die in 3 seconds every team fight but if he picks up Kassadin/Jayce/Jax/Yorick/etc he'd probably do relatively well just due to the nature of those champions kits.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackDAILO View Post
.. And what makes you believe that your own opinion is much more relevant?
I didn't state my opinion, I stated a fact. This tier list is Saurons opinion and highly subjective. In a weeks time someone could come along and find a way to play say Nasus that makes him OP as all hell, and everyone then says "Nasus is OP, Nerf Nasus" even though he isn't placed as such on this list. In a weeks time Sauron could change his mind and randomly think Kassadin is no longer OP and moves him down 3 tiers even though there are no balance changes. Does that mean the list is wrong? Does that mean the list was wrong?

No, but it isn't right either. It is just one players opinion based on his experiences, just like based on mine I can tell ya Syndra is alot better than this list makes her out to be.


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naotasan

Senior Member

12-23-2012

I really wish I could say Karma is higher than Tier 4 but I have to agree with the current list.

It feels like she's behind in a lot of aspects and just doesn't quite pull through like she used to in the bft/bc meta.