One Tier List to rule them all

First Riot Post
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Panwar

Senior Member

05-30-2012

I reeeallly like Viktor. I have played him in tons of Dominion games. I've played him glass cannon, I've played him tanky mage, I've played him support. I'm really good at hitting E and timing W.

He just doesn't work. As Sauron said you can quote ability stats all day long. But it just doesn't mean anything to the reality of Viktor in Dominion. I wish he worked. If you think you can get it done, go out and prove us wrong and then tell me about it so I can play Viktor in Dominion.

But I'm not holding my breath.


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jars

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Senior Member

05-30-2012

I haven't had issues laning in top or both with vik. Sure it was free cass week...

are people augmenting E? don't do that, death sucks. get Q, get a rylais, run circles around people. his biggest weakness is his ult cd never goes down. it's pretty powerful


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WaterD103

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Senior Member

05-30-2012

I'm not playing much and, the little i'm playing is at lower elo each day because im playing champs that i play bad. But I feel tier 5 for Udyr, Yorick , soraka and mordekaiser, seems wrong. tier 4 may be ok, tier 5, considering the champs in each tier (yeah i know only cho left) seems a little too much. However is just nitpicking.

Also, you are probably right, But Other than your tier list, I don't see evidence anywhere that lulu is cheescake, sadly your team ban it always so i can't see her in action in the important games.


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Panwar

Senior Member

05-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jars View Post
I haven't had issues laning in top or both with vik. Sure it was free cass week...

are people augmenting E? don't do that, death sucks. get Q, get a rylais, run circles around people. his biggest weakness is his ult cd never goes down. it's pretty powerful
Yah you are a tanky mage running circles around people and really contributing very little(a stun every now and then, and his ult once in a great while). Done that.


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Kohelet

Senior Member

05-30-2012

I feel like Nunu is much weaker than shown on this list. What am I missing? Is it just coordination that he really needs?

Consume: Does practically nothing unless you're pushing bot.

Ice Blast : Outranged by Darius and most others (E.G. Gangplank is 625)

Blood Boil: Probably his best spell to support.

Absolute Zero: Tricky to get off without someone helping CC.


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Sauron

Senior Member

05-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kohelet View Post
I feel like Nunu is much weaker than shown on this list. What am I missing? Is it just coordination that he really needs?

Consume: Does practically nothing unless you're pushing bot.

Ice Blast : Outranged by Darius and most others (E.G. Gangplank is 625)

Blood Boil: Probably his best spell to support.

Absolute Zero: Tricky to get off without someone helping CC.
Nunu is a great counter to some autoattackers up until late game. He can go bot lane and deny champions like Jax their farm for a good while, usually long enough for a mid-late game bottom laner to swap in for him. In top lane, Blood Boil is effective on many carries and he can pull quite a few clutch plays with his ult.

Nunu doesn't scale well late game, but his base stats and abilities let him go pretty strong up until then. I feel he is balanced champion, all things considered, if a little on the weak side. Consume could definately use a rework.


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Sauron

Senior Member

06-01-2012

Updated list slightly, expecting Draven to be a tier 2 on both lanes after release but that's just my guess. We shall see.


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Panwar

Senior Member

06-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
Updated list slightly, expecting Draven to be a tier 2 on both lanes after release but that's just my guess. We shall see.
*edit*
Apparently I don't know how to read.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

06-01-2012

He said Draven, not Darius.

I think Draven will have issues top, just due to graphics. Shyvana ult form burnout, Malzahar pool, etc. make it rather hard to see where the axes fall. Without the Axes, he's a slightly sub-par ranged carry. If you can keep Q on non-stop (and thus also W), then you deal sick damage.

Of course, it messes up being careful about positioning - both going for the axes all the time (opponents can aim skillshots there), and having to look at something other than the action.


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Regory

Senior Member

06-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
Watch some tournaments or featured matches. The tier lists are based on experience and not theorycrafting. Lulu wins over Janna and does a ton of damage for a pure tank.
Lulu does 260 + 280 with two crappy ratios, on seven- and ten-second base cooldowns respectively. Regardless of how she compares to Janna, her damage is quite modest (read: bad) and being "experienced" doesn't magically make her deal more damage. The watch-'em-play argument doesn't really work for video games. A better player will put her tools to better use, sure, but you don't deal more damage unless you itemize for it.

Quote:
"Fiddlesticks can be quite strong just sitting back and protecting his team with massive CC, much like Janna or Lulu. His lack of mobility certainly does not put him on their level but I think he has real merit compared to some more "average" champions, like Nunu or Nautilus..."

"Some" circumstances, like, anyone with a hard CC or a gap closer. That's only almost all the champions picked regularly in Dominion. And Dark Wind makes no difference -- I'm diving you 1v1 whenever Terrify is on cooldown. Unless you went straight tank I'll kill you before you can fear me again. In team fights you're going to get bursted down unless you have Zhonya's, and if you do, we'll be focusing your allies instead.
Your top 16 (top laners), chosen because hey 10 picks + 6 bans why not...
Lulu - Ready interrupt.
Kassadin - Ready interrupt.
Urgot - Interrupt only on ult.

...and so on. Indeed only two completely lack a way to interrupt Fiddlesticks' Drain, three just with ults. I think you underestimate his dueling prowess, though. Fiddlesticks Drain tanking doods comes out on top against almost everyone but Jax or well-equipped AD carries, it's like getting Twin Fang spammed by Cass except with built-in 80% spell vamp. ;/ Yes, you can interrupt it but Terrify will buy him the time to re-cast... and then unless you're Riven, you lose. Good luck if you're literally diving him under a turret.

In a team fight, he can just sit back and chill with his three-second fear and AoE silence protecting a carry or something. It's not much different from Janna doing her thing or Blitz doing his thing in a new package. The fact that he deals pretty strong damage (healing most of it back) if you ignore him to focus on other targets is just a really sweet perk, not like say Katarina where interrupting her channel basically kills her usefulness...

...whom you incidentally have at the bottom of Tier 3, a full tier ahead of Fiddlesticks. Care to explain that one to me, O Chosen One? You just keep throwing the "herp derp personal experience beats theory" argument at me (which isn't necessarily even true). Well what makes Katarina better in your experience then, since you didn't give her a little snippet explaining her tier placement? Both of them are pretty heavily-reliant on a channeled ability to deal their damage, which "almost all the champions picked regularly in Dominion" will interrupt. The difference is that Fiddlesticks can actually re-cast his in a few seconds if interrupted, oh and he also has the best targetted CC in the game which is pretty universally useful. Katarina... doesn't really do anything else to my knowledge. Grievous Wounds bot? That's the closest thing she has to utility. Build AD and play her as a generic bruiser? Sure, she's a worse tanky deeps than all the real ones but her spells scale about the same whether you build AP / AD, at least the latter gives your autoattacks some punch when you're inevitably CCed out of your ult time and again. But maybe you know something I don't.

Snarkiness aside, I have plenty of experience. People may not look to me as an authority but the client's matchmaking has graced me with your presence on occasion, so I can't be a complete idiot. ;/ Experience with every champ? Of course not and I'm sure you don't either. The ones I'm arguing for? Viktor no, Fiddlesticks yes, and regarding Lulu/Janna my argument merely regards your misplaced priorities in what makes Lulu better which has nothing to do with experience. They're close enough that I think ranking them either way is perfectly justifiable but if Lulu is better, it's not because she deals more damage. Not only is that potentially untrue even at 0 AP (depending on Howling Gale's charge time), it's not important to their role as tanky, mobile CC bots.

Now I don't enjoy playing Viktor nor particularly care about him but come on, he's better than Evelynn bot. Dude's gotta slot in above Fiddlesticks at the very least.