Ashe Armpen or crit damage?

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SkimMilk

Member

08-23-2012

So when building a rune page and in game build is it better...

getting armpen?
With runes, and last whisper?

or perma crit and crit damage?
With +crit damage and IF and PD's?

I dont do math (or english) so someone if someone else could kindly point me in the right direction that'd be swell.


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DemonicAngel318

Senior Member

08-23-2012

If you're going for pure damage, Armor Pen will give you more damage than Crit Damage, especially in end game. It's more important that ALL of your attacks do more damage rather than just your crits. This also helps with last-hitting. However, having a full Armor Pen rune page is rather unbalanced and leaves you defenseless.

A good rune page set up for Ashe or many other AD carries would be:

Armor Pen Marks (Red)
Armor Yellows (Seals)
Magic Resist Glyphs (Blue)
Armor Pen Quints (Purple)

While the 13 armor may not seem like a lot, it can often be the difference between having 10 HP left and getting away, or having 0 HP and dying.


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SkimMilk

Member

08-23-2012

but if you had a 90+% of critting wouldnt crit damage be better than armpen?


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DemonicAngel318

Senior Member

08-23-2012

No, I don't know the exact math, but someone's done it before, Armor Pen gives you more damage.

Put it this way. If you have crit damage marks, your damage is increased by about 20%, provided you have a near-100% crit rate. Say you have 300 AD and an infinity edge. Against an opponent with 0 armor (true damage), A crit would deal 750 damage. With Crit Damage, that becomes 900.

With 25 Armor pen in runes (marks and quints), that makes their armor 75. If the target has 0 armor, they're now at -25 Armor, so you're dealing 25% more damage (because every negative point in a resistance = 1%), compared to 20%. That's937 damage instead of 900.

And early game, since you have a very low crit rate (even with Ashe's stacking passive, this does not hit every minion), and minions have very low armor, Armor Pen runes also make last hitting easier.

If you didn't understand any of that math, just take my word for it. Every GOOD player runs Armor pen marks on AD's like Ashe.


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Bus Driver

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Senior Member

08-23-2012

Everyone saying armor pen runes is kind of a joke... armor pen runes add about 1-2 damage early to minions. Although armor pen is better for early game against CHAMPIONS (which need I remind you what an adc should be doing for the first 15 mins...), they both even out towards the end of the game, and you probably got your golds worth on the attack damage runes. Oh, and about crit damage runes... a crit damage page is the most expensive rune page currently in league, and it isn't worth the cost (the first page I built, so I would know.) If you end up needing armor pen (which you will since there's usually a tank in every game, normal or ranked) just buy a last whisper.


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Bus Driver

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Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonicAngel318 View Post
If you didn't understand any of that math, just take my word for it. Every GOOD player runs Armor pen marks on AD's like Ashe.
No, no they don't.


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Khizan

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Ashe's base stats are low enough that I like to run pure AD on her, rather than arp, since it makes last hitting easier.

EDIT: by "pure AD" I mean "AD marks/quints". Flat armor yellows and scaling/flat mres for blues, ofc.


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Always MIA

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Senior Member

08-23-2012

I'd recommend the tried and true ArmPen Reds, Armor Yellows, Scaling MR Blues, AD Quints for most carries including Ashe.


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DemonicAngel318

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Please find me a professional-level guide telling you to use AD runes on Ashe, and I will believe you. AD isn't bad on her, just not ideal. +15 AD is better early game, because it's roughly +15 damage on minions compared to 1-2. But late-game (like the poster was asking), when AD is higher, % increase in damage scales you better.


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Deathbypie

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Senior Member

08-23-2012

The difference late game really isn't a big deal. Runes are generally important early game, to give you some advantage. Knocking off a few points of armor off of a tanky champion who already has well over 100 armor is only going to give you a few % extra damage.
Also, DemonicAngel318, you should go look up how armor pen and reduction actually work. Armor pen does not bring armor below 0. So, against a target with 0 armor, armor pen does nothing. Though champions will all have some armor.
I personally prefer going 15 ad in reds and quints, to make last hitting easier. I don't believe the damage on champions is hugely affected either way. Armor pen does nothing for last hitting, since minions don't have any armor..
Anyway, the point is, there is not a huge difference, so people should go with what they prefer or what runes they already have.