[Help Thread] Last Hitting, advanced and specific details

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Holykow

Junior Member

05-13-2012

Hello, Fellow Summoners. I am Holykow and as you have probably already figured out I have a few questions about the topic of Last Hitting. First let me explain where I currently am in my ELO bracket. I currently hold the top (or at least one of the top three not far behind the other two) creep scores per game I play (except when I am AD bot, where I am able to stay above the enemy AD most games but am having a bit of trouble with keeping what would be considered a "Good CS". A related question about this will be posted below).

I'd say my average creep score in solo lanes is about 150-180 cs / 20 minutes. As top or Mid I will roam at about this time (after destroying the tower) and help my team in team fights/ganking lanes that have not yet been won). On bot I have about the same CS although ganks and getting denied interfere heavily.

My Questions:

1 - What do you consider to be a GOOD cs? (I.E. high ELO ranked CS).
- In relation to this question, how does one deal with being zoned, denied, and ganked? I sometimes miss an entire creep wave because of this. I try my best to freeze lanes where I want them but it seems unavoidable to miss at least 10-50 creeps a game because of things like this. How is it that high ELO players seemingly avoid missing creeps during ganks or while being zoned? I certainly do not see them last hitting during confrontations and team fights. This is my biggest problem when I am playing AD Bot, as I'm sure many of you know it is probably the most action packed lane when ganks and harass are involved.

2 - I understand that every time you go back your enemy will (or at least should) push the minions to your turret so they will bounce back (and you will miss out). My question is when is a good time to go back? And how can I prevent my enemy from getting ahead when I go back (if there is indeed a way I could do that).

3 - I consider myself to be above average when it comes to general map awareness (players, wards, positioning, mia's), but in all the guides I've read it does not completely discuss or go in depth on the topic of creep positioning (or there is no guide I have found that is in depth enough for me to completely understand the concept). Could someone link me a guide or explain the dynamics of when to push, freeze, and pull and when I should be most aware of when my next creep wave will be/where it is on the map.

4 - What is a good CS when you are jungling. I end up with about 150 by the end of the game depending on how much I can counter jungle or whether or not I get counter jungled. Successful ganks are a big part of that as well, of course, because I can return to my jungle quicker. I find myself up to about the same CS as the solo laners up until about 7-8 minutes where they casually grade up and i stay about even because of the constant ganks. Should I be in the jungle more as a result?
- My answer to this question is that I shouldn't worry as much about CS while I'm in the jungle and should just take my own jungle as much as I can (while last hitting free lanes where my teammate has died/recalled/is helping another lane and concern myself more with ganking). Am I wrong/is there an alternative opinion somewhere out there?

Thank you for your responses ahead of time (although I will be sure to watch this post and reply, of course).

And yes, I am a try hard ;D


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Alsadius

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Junior Member

05-13-2012

I'm only moderate Elo, so take this for what it's worth, but here's my thoughts on a couple.

2) Push the lane hard before you B, so that they can't push it back all the way before you get back. If you have a support who can stay alive and get a bit of CS then it's a good chance to feed them some gold, but there's very few supports who can actually do that 1v2.

4) Endgame CS isn't a great barometer generally. It tends to devolve too much into who has the best AOE for lategame pushing and how long the game took, and not who has the best CS style in early game(when it really matters). Look at your CS after, say, 20 minutes to get a sense of how well you're doing.


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Tantro

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Member

05-13-2012

When you go to grab a creep you really should not be in range if their ranged..stay out of their range until a minion is low than go in for that last hit. Avoid taking damaging at all cost. If you end up in a situation where you have about two minion and they have seven than resort to aoe skills or freeze the lane. If you want to go shop shove the lane hard with your aoe spells until you barely under tower.. If you end up in their tower almost and you don't have gold to spend than go counter jungle their wraiths or wolf if you feel their kinglet are not nearby.


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thepantsparty

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Senior Member

05-13-2012

From watching the featured streams, 100 cs per 15 minutes seems to be about what you're shooting for.


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FlavenMan

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Senior Member

05-13-2012

CS as a jungler is kind of an odd thing to keep track of and compare to CS in lane, I wouldn't really try to get a specific number. Not because XP and Gold aren't important, but because jungle creeps vary significantly in how much XP and gold "per CS". Getting double golems twice is not the same as clearing the wraith camp once.

To illustrate my point, lets say you steal the enemy Blue Wraith, so you will be shown as only having one CS, while the enemy jungler who gets the other three wraiths has THREE TIMES your CS. However, the one large wraith is worth significantly more than all three other wraiths. Or lets say you are counterjungling and ganking and only have 12 CS at 20 minutes, but that's because you got both blue and red buffs five times, and two dragons (obviously an exaggerated example).

Unlike lanes where the creeps are all very similar in how much gold they give, Jungle CS can be weird, as it is such a diverse mix. Finally, you aren't worried about last hitting in the jungle, so CS is more a reflection of how well you manage your time then how well you are last hitting.


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Pushover

Senior Member

05-13-2012

Generally you are doing fine in CS if you are tied or ahead of your opponent in the lane. If you have 20 cs by 5 mins, yet your opponent has only 5, then you are technically winning your lane.

Generally, you try to push it to their tower before going back. If you are too low on health, call your jungler to hold the lane while you go back. That way, the experience at least gives your jungler an advantage. If you come back to a pushing wave, you can freeze the lane and punish them for trying to push the lane.

For creep position, your creeps are at the same spot as the enemy creeps on the other side. So when your creeps are passing the second tower, so are theirs. Freeze the lane whenever you can do it without risking the loss of an objective such as blue, dragon or risk a gank elsewhere.

Jungling it really depends. I guess you can consider a kill from a gank to be worth 15-20 CS and go with that, compare it to their jungler. There really isn't a number you are supposed to have, a Shaco will have less cs than a Shyv pretty much the whole game.