Hi. I知 Sejuani, and I need to be sent back to the drawing board.

First Riot Post
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Mahgnificent

Senior Member

05-31-2012

Rick these people are stupid if you're still reading.

Remember playing a champ 10 times does not make you an expert on them. Using them one time in ranked because you had a guide does not make you an expert and make your opinion count. I went through a spell where I played nothing but Sej and Naut and now I still pick Sej quite a bit and nothing is wrong with her. People perceived her as weak which made her a number one target. So if you went into a fight too early you could be immediately shot down.

Sej IS hard to master because her moveset does look a little bland but the way it works together makes mastering it difficult. Her ultimate's range is a saving grace. If you don't happen to be with you're team when a fight breaks out you have some distance to shoot it. Long range sniping is not Sej's job. Her true job is making sure the enemy carries cannot run. You should be trying to chain her moves together to keep them from moving. Changing her moves or boosting her time frames on slows on anything like that will make her too easy. I'm sure there are enough brain dead champs in league already to cater to the people who don't want to have to work at getting better.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

05-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahgnificent View Post
Rick these people are stupid if you're still reading.

Remember playing a champ 10 times does not make you an expert on them. Using them one time in ranked because you had a guide does not make you an expert and make your opinion count. I went through a spell where I played nothing but Sej and Naut and now I still pick Sej quite a bit and nothing is wrong with her. People perceived her as weak which made her a number one target. So if you went into a fight too early you could be immediately shot down.

Sej IS hard to master because her moveset does look a little bland but the way it works together makes mastering it difficult. Her ultimate's range is a saving grace. If you don't happen to be with you're team when a fight breaks out you have some distance to shoot it. Long range sniping is not Sej's job. Her true job is making sure the enemy carries cannot run. You should be trying to chain her moves together to keep them from moving. Changing her moves or boosting her time frames on slows on anything like that will make her too easy. I'm sure there are enough brain dead champs in league already to cater to the people who don't want to have to work at getting better.
No these people are not stupid... honestly your remark was and you should apologize. You are assuming because players don't agree with you that they have no experience... Well I guess Riot is stupid also because they feel something is wrong with Sejuani.

Some players want armor and defensive steroids, some want damage, some want changes to her abilities and some like me want her to focus on movement... yet some want no changes.

I was and still am a no change person but Sejuani is getting something so I want to focus on what I believe the vision for her was. So you should say what you think but not call people stupid for a different opinion.


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chumbler

Senior Member

05-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahgnificent View Post
Rick these people are stupid if you're still reading.

Remember playing a champ 10 times does not make you an expert on them. Using them one time in ranked because you had a guide does not make you an expert and make your opinion count. I went through a spell where I played nothing but Sej and Naut and now I still pick Sej quite a bit and nothing is wrong with her. People perceived her as weak which made her a number one target. So if you went into a fight too early you could be immediately shot down.

Sej IS hard to master because her moveset does look a little bland but the way it works together makes mastering it difficult. Her ultimate's range is a saving grace. If you don't happen to be with you're team when a fight breaks out you have some distance to shoot it. Long range sniping is not Sej's job. Her true job is making sure the enemy carries cannot run. You should be trying to chain her moves together to keep them from moving. Changing her moves or boosting her time frames on slows on anything like that will make her too easy. I'm sure there are enough brain dead champs in league already to cater to the people who don't want to have to work at getting better.
It's fairly common for people to confuse "X champion is difficult because they are bad or extremely limited" with "X champion is difficult because they have a lot of depth." Master Yi, Katarina, and Sejuani are examples of the former, Orianna of the latter. Karma would go in the latter category if her spells weren't terrible. Sejuani does not have depth. Her abilities are all straightforward with no layers. Press Q to get in and apply frost. Press W to do damage because that is literally all it does. Press E to slow more and do some damage. Press R to initiate. There is no clever way to use her W or E, and it isn't worth blowing the lengthy cooldown on her Q or ult to try to do some fancy tricks.

No one disputes that her ult is powerful, it's just that there's really not much else there. And calling her a cc monster is just false. Blitzcrank and Nautilus are cc monsters. Sejuani is a weaker frozen mallet. Slows are not a strong cc, especially when they're only 10%.


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MTaur

Senior Member

05-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTexan View Post
Because then the game ain't balanced very well is it?

If a champ just plain sucks so hard that someone can choose another character with a fast jungle time, or with super tankiness? then that means that char will be overplayed and sejuani will be under played.

This is not the diversity that anyone wants.. I mean, who wants to see the same 10 champs every game? Not I
I don't understand your point at all. You agree that the other junglers and tanks are stronger in most circumstances. So... where's the part where you explain why we don't buff the others? Or nerf the stronger ones, it's about equivalent.

"It's bad enough that we see the same 10 champs every game. What if we saw the same 11 champs every game? Where would it end? What if we saw the same 90 champs every game? The horrors!"


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TeachezofPeachez

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Senior Member

05-31-2012

I totally agree, Sej needs some love.


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Counter

Senior Member

05-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
i find it easy to take them seriously--perception is a huge deal. i wouldn't want to discount someone's frustrations just because they aren't able to identify the cause and/or offer a solution.

generally speaking, i think people playing league of legends are playing for enjoyment. if people aren't enjoying themselves, it's not required that they do research, crunch numbers, and/or write an essay in order to express that--it's totally fine to be expressive and subjective. politely, of course.
He gets it! I main jungle so I'll give my take on Sej.

What she does well:
CC Sej is like the king of cc she has slows, aoe stun, and did i mention slows.
pretty beef outta the gate.

What she does badly or doesn't do:
Clear times are just to slow.
Cannot hold her own against, well anyone.
Pretty much one way to build her and thats tank

All in all I think Sejuani does what was intended and thats put out cc. Given the right comp she can be a great asset. The problem is that you rarely find that comp. So for solo queue I'd never play her as If someone on my team does badly there is no way in hell I can pick up the slack. I'd rather go with safer picks like Udry, Warwick, and Skarner.

Her kit is pretty nice just not nice enough to justify using her! What she can do others can do better.


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Isysar

Senior Member

05-31-2012

Bump.

Sejuani needs help


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Bikohoness

Senior Member

05-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviance View Post
Sejuani is the M18 Hellcat that German Panther and Tigers lost to because they couldn't turn their turrets fast enough!
If you haven't noticed, there are no turrets in League of Legends (unless you count Rumble and Corki) So turret speed doesn't apply.

In order for your analogy to work, Sejuani's charge would need to be on a zero or one second cooldown and have almost no mana cost. She would also need to be untargetable while she's charging. THAT would effectively make her function like the the light tanks of WWII in the LOL setting. I honestly don't see that happening, though I'd beta-test the hell out of that configuration. :-)


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PeachyMann

Senior Member

05-31-2012

So here are my opinions of sejuani as a support bot laner. I've tried her top, but she doesn't have the burst or CC to compete against a lot of champs. She seems like an okay jungler, but I don't have much experience with that so I won't speak to it here.

Her early damage is weak because it's DoT that scales off of health. The best item to get starting out with is probably doran's shield (HP for increased W damage, Armor for obvious reasons, and HP regen). The problem with that is if you play Sejuani as a no-cs support, you fall behind on getting your gold generation items which hurts warding abilies. SO back to her laning. Because Sejuani has no defensive steroids and no hard CC, she takes a LOT of damage. Leona has both of these as well as a huge increase in burst due to her passive. Blitzcrank has good positioning control due to his grab and great cc from his knockup. Ali has a knockup and knockback. Taric can stun and sustain. Sejuani as a tank/support offers only a slow until level 6. Sejuani's kit makes you feel like you need to be up in a fight to make things happen. Her W is AoE damage over time, her E is an AoE slow for targets that are frosted, her passive clearly indicates that you are meant to stick on a target. The problem, though, is that if you actually try to stick on a target without having items you end up taking so much damage because she has no hard cc (ult excluded). So if you want to harass early game, you turn on W, run in, attack the target, and use E for the permafrost slow. But since you can't stop your opponents from attacking, they get some hits in. If they have hard CC you need to use your Q to close the gap (which means your escape is gone). If minions are there, you will draw their aggro, and since you have no defensive steroids, you are going to take a lot of damage. Now there is a good chance you just came out of that fight either with the same or less health from the targets you meant to harass, but you have no sustain abilities, so you have to pop pots and/or sit and do nothing for 3 or 4 mins.

In a bot lane situation, it's just really boring and somewhat difficult to get to a point where Sejuani is useful. In ganks, she's good because of that slow, but in general laning, Sej is lacking. If you fall behind in lane too, her late game is going to suffer because she is so dependent on items. It makes sense from a design standpoint that you don't want to give a champ with permaslow utility that much inherent power, but with the way that the game is currently played right now, Sejuani has a hard time fitting in. She might do well in a duo-lane with tanky-DPS, and there are some lanes now where she is alright, but overall I don't think she is able to keep pace with her counterparts.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

05-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikohoness View Post
If you haven't noticed, there are no turrets in League of Legends (unless you count Rumble and Corki) So turret speed doesn't apply.

In order for your analogy to work, Sejuani's charge would need to be on a zero or one second cooldown and have almost no mana cost. She would also need to be untargetable while she's charging. THAT would effectively make her function like the the light tanks of WWII in the LOL setting. I honestly don't see that happening, though I'd beta-test the hell out of that configuration. :-)
You are being way to literal. It's an analogy of movement as defense, not of how targeting and tracking works or tactics.

If you want to be so literal the Hellcat is a tank destroyer not a light tank... which the Americans pretty much only fitted with turrets. Most were used in ambush like fashion...

But back on topic its an analogy of movement as defense vs armor because with a 320 movement she and Voli would be the two tankys with the fastest base movement speed. She can avoid skill shots and move in and out of range better avoiding damage (similar to moving fast enough so that the enemy can not track effectively). Removing the champion collision stop allows her to get behind the enemy and attack the carry (similar to attacking thinner armor in the rear). And the collision avoidance and slow resistance for 3 seconds helps her again to keep moving (similar to avoiding being destroyed by other units in the area).