Hi. I知 Sejuani, and I need to be sent back to the drawing board.

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Timjin

Senior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaur View Post

Just about the only way to give her a good first jungle is to go cloth/potions and AD/AS reds, and maybe some even more radical rune page choices that buff level 1, but are worthless late-game. It's just weird that there's only one jungler in the game with no mitigation/sustain whatsoever. I'm not certain that she really needs a lot here, either. But I'd be glad to see a little, maybe even with a small trade-off elsewhere.
TLDR at bottom

This, 1000x this. Although most junglers can go cloth/5 to generate a higher sustained run, and Boots/3 for stronger ganks and early map control, Sejuani does not have this option. In more painful is the fact that she most use all of her pots to be at an okay (75%) amount of health to go in for a gank with cloth/5, where other junglers can go boots/3 be at the same health, and even have a pot left, depending on the jungler.

Considering she was designed as a jungler, the fact that she is outperformed by so many of them is disappointing and questionable. She doesn't need to be the top jungler, and many of us Sejuani players would even be irritated if she became the next FOTM Mundo or Alistar, but it would definitely be nice if she could be compared to other common tank junglers like Nautilus, or Amumu in terms of viability.

Sejuani feels like she is somewhere in between Amumu and Nautilus.

Amumu has a 1100 range gap-closing stun (that can be blocked/dodged), high AoE damage, reduced minion damage (Sustain) and Amazing teamfight potential due to his Ultimate (1200 diameter range around the mummy).

Nautilus has tremendous crowd control through 4/5 of his skills, a 950 range gap-closing blitz hook (Can be blocked/dodged), a shield (sustain with damage when he isn't focused), an AoE slow, a click stun/KD Ultimate (Can't be dodged or blocked once her targets you, even knocks up everyone who is in the way).

Sejuani has a 700 range gap-closer that can be dodged but she will still close the gap (can be blocked essentially for free) and it applies her passive and damage in AoE, AoE damage, a massive AoE slow along with damage (only if the target already has her passive applied) and Amazing team fight potential due to her ultimate: 1150 range 2s stun + 1s stun in AoE + damage and passive application (This can be dodged or blocked to to some extent, AoE still goes off)

Notice how Sejuani feels like their adoptive child?

Sadly, she is missing a couple important components, mainly sustain. She gets eaten alive in the jungle, while depleting her mana. This leaves her feeling like she lacks the resources to properly gank after finishing her jungle compared to others. Her Q which is similar to other jungle Tanks presents no drawback for getting hit by it. Her ranges and cooldowns also make her feel a bit clunky at times.

Take her Q and R for example:
Her Q, which is her gap-closer, has 700 range.
Her R, which is her ultimate, has a range of 1150.
This is a difference of 450 units, which is close to Sejuani's maximum movement speed with boots 2, runes, and masterys. This means that if Sejuani lands a max-range ultimate, she will still need about 1 second (Half the stun time of her ult) to reach the champion she hits.
Her E cannot even be used if she hits a champion from max range due to it's bizarre 1000 range (Why is this even here?). If it could be used at half-strength without the passive (think Anivia E) then it would be much less clunky.


TLDR: Sejuani is similar to Amumu and Nautilus, other Jungle tanks, but lacks sustain. Her gap-closer lacks any application as disruption and can be blocked for free. Her ranges are also very strange at times. It would be better if her ultimate and Q were closer in range and if E's range were removed (Or if it could be used at half-strength without passive)


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Arcane Azmadi

Senior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjin View Post
Ezreal just posted about her =)





Sounds like little has changed, but she IS being worked on.
You realise they've been saying they're having a look at her for at least half a year now?

Expect Sejuani buffs some time towards the end of 2013.


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OGZ Poptart Cat

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Senior Member

09-02-2012

I love sej. I still use her every now and then. 6-3 with her in ranked atm.
But.....

Main issues I have with sej is.

-Tankyness(I charge in and go to kick some butt just to find out I'm crying and running away...)
-Why does she use mana......Give her furiosity
-Why do I have a passive for slowing on auto hit when I scale on ap?(kinda wierd feeling to me..)
-Ultimate last 1 sec and you can only throw it to max range, if you miss, you miss hard.


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Best Sejuani NA

Junior Member

09-02-2012

We need this buff!


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BaII

Senior Member

09-02-2012

mainly the problem i find with her is that her late game doesn't compensate enough for her horrible early game.


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EzraTwitch

Senior Member

09-02-2012

I really wish the reds would stop defending her instead of honestly looking at her. She needs buffs, she very very very obviously needs buffs, she is weak at all roles. Tanky Jungler? Amumu does everything she does better, Stick to your opponenets? Mundo, Olaf, Xin. Tanky Support? Alistar or Leona (Defense Steroids OP), Tanky AP? Mordkasier, Rumble. Pure AP? lol dont make me laugh.

Dont get me wrong I love Sejuani, I like her kit, her look, mechanically she is sound in my mind. She is just weak. She needs straight number buffs, otherwise playing her is extremely unfulfilling as you have to put forth twice as much effort to be half as useful.

The best idea I have seen for her was suggested in a different thread. Which is make her Passive a mark similiar to Kat, Akali. So it lasts more then .35 seconds versus characters with inborn tenacity and Mercs, who are gonna be the characters that you most need to peel but even that alone isn't enough to make her playable with out strengthing her numbers (namely CDR, health, and defenses).


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MTaur

Senior Member

09-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjin View Post
TLDR: Sejuani is similar to Amumu and Nautilus, other Jungle tanks, but lacks sustain. Her gap-closer lacks any application as disruption and can be blocked for free. Her ranges are also very strange at times. It would be better if her ultimate and Q were closer in range and if E's range were removed (Or if it could be used at half-strength without passive)
One thing about Sejuani is that she's a better escape artist than these guys, by far. Q and E go a long way, with sometimes W if they're too close. Shen can jump through walls like her, but doesn't have the damage that she has. Planning to stay for as much W as you can and then disengaging can help. Sometimes saving R for disengage/counterinitiate works too.

I find that trying to stay alive and being the proverbial greased pig helps her performance some overall. But Q takes 7 seconds or so at full CDR and you have to pick fights carefully. Wards can help.


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Timjin

Senior Member

09-03-2012

Her Q has too long of a cooldown in general, especially if you don't focus on it. Not that it needs to be a 1-point wonder, but it does have a 19 second cooldown at the start..


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MTaur

Senior Member

09-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjin View Post
Her Q has too long of a cooldown in general, especially if you don't focus on it. Not that it needs to be a 1-point wonder, but it does have a 19 second cooldown at the start..
I've tried maxing it last, and I just don't like it that way. I've gone back to maxing it at 14, even if I lose some on E. Not dying is just that much better.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

09-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaur View Post
This stretches the distance between best and worst cases. Riot has already said that they don't want to buff her best case. The worst case is that she still has all her old problems, but now she can jump into the middle of the team to feed more easily.



Positioning is an interesting part of the strategy that makes LoL what it is. Sometimes it takes patience, or better map control, or the element of surprise, or you might have to wait and counter-initiate. If you throw your R when the tank can block it, it's an l2p issue, not a "Sej needs to blink like LeBlanc" issue.



Not that often. Either they leave an opening and I can ult their carry to initiate, or they don't, and I can harass and zone until a counterinitiation opens up, generally. If you have to do what you describe, then hopefully it was worth it. Maybe sometimes it is.



She has a long jump, a projectile AoE stun, and a strong slow. She has all she needs to keep a strong control over mobility in a team fight. All you have to do is save your Q and R for the right time.

The unstoppable Q wouldn't help her worst case at all, and it would make her a real "derp to win" champ when she's off to a good start. It would also let her run away whenever she felt like it, with the option of boxing her in when she's overcommitted totally obliterated. It cheapens the strategy and feeds into the "mobility creep" that's constantly under scrutiny these days. It's asking for the wrong thing, and it's asking for too much of it. She just needs a short interrupt on Q so she can peel a little better, and she'd be golden for disrupting late-game.

Just about the only way to give her a good first jungle is to go cloth/potions and AD/AS reds, and maybe some even more radical rune page choices that buff level 1, but are worthless late-game. It's just weird that there's only one jungler in the game with no mitigation/sustain whatsoever. I'm not certain that she really needs a lot here, either. But I'd be glad to see a little, maybe even with a small trade-off elsewhere.
I haven't seen anything other than she needs a feel adjustment and she has noted survivability issues... so I'm not sure about the "what they want to buff" or "not want to buff" scenarios comes from.

Throwing your initiation or not throwing your initiation sounds a little counter productive for an initiator... choosing the best moment during an initiation makes a lot more sense than not.. choosing to use your initiation during... initiation. Positioning is great and all... its part of the reason I like ms Quints. Blink like Leblanc?... really that is a huge stretch Leblanc's blink is like a blink... the speed is uptillion times greater than Arctic assault and sejuani can't blink out.

The funny thing is you and others think she isn't "tanky" enough then say she can sit around and harass until an opening happens. So can she afford to wait or can't she?

The Q is plenty stoppable even if it can not be interrupted.. remember she has survivability issues.