your thought on Mansonian Bloodrazor

I like it. 18 35.29%
meh. 18 35.29%
it's ****. the name is **** too. 15 29.41%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

My Insight on Madred's Bloodrazor

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Space Gandhi

Senior Member

05-11-2012

cut the crappy intro, I am not a journalist.

[Is Madred's Bloodrazor cost efficient?]

Let's take two AD Items with a similar price range

Madred's Bloodrazor(3800)

+ 25 armor
+ 40% attack speed
+ 40 attack damage

4% of target's max heal is transferred into magic damage

Infinity Edge(3830)

+ 80 damage
+ 25% critical
+ 50% more critical damage

both items give fair amount of stats regarding the price of 3800. 4% of target's max heal increases as the enemy stacks more health and the over stat on MB is pretty generous. But IE offers 80 damage and incredible critical hit damage. It should be pretty interesting to compare the two.


[Experiment]

Scenario I.

Range Carry A is equipped with Berserker's Greaves and Madred's Bloodrazor, resulting

124 attack damage
1.6 attack speed
4% max health into magic damage

and let's assume that he has no penetration whatsoever.

Now the target has 50% Magic/Physical damage reduction with 3000 health with 0 health regen.

Range Carry A does a total of 122 mixed per hit(60 magic damage 62 physical) and it takes 25 hits to take down the target. Since He attacks at the rate of 1.6 times a second, it takes him 15 seconds to take down the target.

Range Carry B is equipped with Berserker's Greaves and Infinity Edge, resulting

164 attack damage
1.4 attack speed
25% critical chance

and the target is the same as the first one.

Range Carry B does 82 physical damage per hit and let's assume that he deal 205 critical damage every fourth hit. It takes him 28 hits at the rate of 1.4 attack per second to take down the target down, resulting in 17.4 seconds.

p.s. the math is little bit different if critical damage occurs every first hit.

Madred's bloodrazor takes down the target 2.4 seconds faster, if the random factor on critical change is not very arbitrary.

So the Madred's bloodrazor has the upper hand in this experiment.


Scenario II.

Range Carry A carries the same items

124 attack damage
1.6 attack speed
4% max health into magic damage

the target has 50% physical/magic damage reduction and this time it only has 2000 hp.

Now he does 102 mixed damage per hit and it takes him 20 attacks at the rate of 1.6 attack per seconds to take the enemy down. So it takes 12.5 seconds to take the enemy down.

As for Range Carry B

164 attack damage
1.4 attack speed
25% critical chance

he still does 82 phsyical damage and 204 critical damage every fourth attack. It takes him 18 hits at the rate of 1.4 attacks per second, resulting in 12.9 seconds to take the enemy down.

The gap is only .4 seconds in the second scenario. And the .4 seconds gap can be easily cought up if the Range Carry B attacks first.

I'll give this one a tie.



Scenario III.

This time I will give each range carries 25% critical chance and keep the target same as scenario II.

Range Carry A with

124 attack damage
1.6 attack speed
25% critical
4% max hp into magic damage

now he does 102 mixed damage and 164 critical mixed damage every fourth hit. It takes him 17 hits at the rate of 1.6 attacks per seconds, resulting in 10.6 seconds to take the target down.

Range Carry B with

164 attack damage
1.4 attack speed
50% critical

not he does 82 physical damage and 204 critical damage every second hit. it takes him 14 hits at the rate of 1.4 attacks per seconds, resulting in flat 10 seconds to take down the target.

Range Carry B wins by .6 seconds. but it is still a tie.

oh boy that is 1 - 0 - 2 for Madred's BLoodrazor! It must be a half decent item.









































If you are hitting a standing target that doesn't attack back, then yes.


There are other factors you have to take into a consideration when you are playing a range carry and team fight potential is the biggest one.

In a team fight, it is range carry's job to position and kite. Which means, in order to do more damage in a fight, it is better to have a single attack that hits harder, and IE is more suitable for that kind of job.

The thing is, Madred's Bloodrazor can never replace Infinity Edge's damage output. But it is not exactly the gimmicky items that is fun on attack speed Kog'Maw either.

so what is wrong with this item?

I believe it has the wrong stats

Madred's Bloodrazor gives a pretty good stat,

+ 25 armor
+ 40% attack speed
+ 40 attack damage

4% of target's max heal is transferred into magic damage

it seems like it's worth it for 3800 gold. But it is a really awkward items... 25 armor is great, but not great enough to be considered as a survivability item. And +40 attack is great and all, but other BF items easily overpower this stat and 4% magic damage is not a reliable source of damage either. As long as critical hit exists in league of legends 4% magic damage is a pretty useless stat...

Only useful stat on this item is 40% attack speed. But of all honesty, there is no reason to get this item.

The most basic set set up for a range carry is

Boots
IE
PD
Last Whisper
Life steal preferably Blood Thirster
and survival item or extra PD.

Can Madred's replace any of these to make the build more efficent and powerful? No.

It is just so awkward of an item and ,quite frankly, a Green Pot is a nice little substitute for the output of this item late game and it doesn't cost 3800.

Only time I actually see this item being used is on Kog'Maw, Warwick and sometimes on really bad Fiora.


So does this item need a change? Absolutely. It is expensive, it is awkward and it just doesn't do as much as it should.

so here's an idea for the new Bloodrazor that is more affordable and perhaps useful.

Mansonian Bloodrazor(2515)

recipe

Pickaze(975)
Dagger(420)
Dagger(420)
700 to complete

Effect:
+ 30 damage
+ 40% attack speed
your basic attack deals magic damage equal to 10% of your physical damage (on-hit, which means it works with your critical hit? I am not quite sure how it works.)

p.s. this is probably a terrible idea just laugh at it haha.


or just give us Kitae's Bloodrazor from dominion. it is cheaper but it still does the job.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

05-11-2012

I think Corki just creamed himself.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

05-12-2012

This is effectively a complete rework that is unrelated to Madred's Bloodrazor.

Madred's Bloodrazor is cost-efficient if you include the % health benefit in just about any realistic situation, gold-efficiency is clearly not the problem. What Madred's Bloodrazor really needs is a price decrease because what you really want is the % health damage. The best solution to this problem is to remove the Pickaxe (and some of the associated ad) from Madred's Bloodrazor.

Madred's Bloodrazor would be much better with lower at roughly 2800 gold cost, even though the item would lose much of its ad for that price reduction.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

05-12-2012

Axes already covered my point of view on this. Basically MBR's just too expensive.


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Śpparition

Member

05-12-2012

Wall o Text +1


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Autocthon

Senior Member

05-12-2012

As a sixth slot item MBR is competitive (from a DPS increase) with other items according to some math I did BEFORE its buff. As pretty much any other slot MBR doesn't offer anything to a carry.

But MBR is NOT an item for a carry. It's an item for tDPS and bruisers who need some additional DPS.


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DarkenDragon

Senior Member

05-13-2012

yea, I cant support this change mostly because your changing the item's purpose to something else. you went from a tank destroying item to a increase ad steroid.

but I do agree that I feel MBR needs a slight change and the item does feel a bit awkward.

the main problem I find is that the stats just doesnt go well with what its up against. the whole idea of madred's bloodrazor is that its supposed to help take down tanks. well if that's its purpose then they should make stats that help take down tanks. also being built from a madred's razor seems to be a bit odd. I understand that madred's razor is built for junglers to help them farm the jungle with more ease and then they can use it to build into a MBR to help fight off tanks. but the item doesnt quite help with that much at all. also most junglers will have upgraded the madred's razor into a lantern instead.

my suggestion would be to change MBR completly and build it to do what it supposed to do.

the way I would make the stats would be

40 AD (or remove this completely)
40% attack speed
20 magic pen
10 armor pen
4% magic damage based on enemy's hp

now you have an item that actually is made to take down a tank but still doesnt destroy a non tank.
also notice that I used pen instead of reduction, this means that you can not use this to lower an opponent's resistance below what they have and it is applied after reductions, so if your build already lowers their resistances down to 0, this penetration would have no effect.


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Izzytoots

Senior Member

07-15-2012

Madreds is very situational. I only build madreds on a few champions only if they have more than 3 high health targets that still do damage. If much of the enemy has more than 3k hp, it is effective, but not to replace ie. i would useually replace last whisper if they are not building lots of armor. It really is only good against a bad enemy team. Like i just played a game as kog against renekton, naut, amumu, an ashe who build warmogs, and fiddlesticks. Everyone but fiddle and ashe had 4k health (and ashe had 3k). I melted all of them with my 10% of health magic damage. The three tanks only built like 50 armor each. I insta gibbed the entire team. I simPly replace last whisper with bloodrazor and build standard carry with QSS. Easiest game.


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babno

Member

07-16-2012

I like madreds. Also consider in scenario 3, the source of that 25% crit is likely a phantom, which also has a butload of AS which benefits the razor. I also like it because it means I'm not solely reliant on physical damage. I may not get it if the enemy team isn't building anti armor, but you can bet your ass I'll guns straight to it when I see a mundo with 200+ armor.

My build for AD carries without much ability damage and vs heavy armor is berserkers greaves, last wisper, madreds, cleaver, BT, and survival or another BT. I also like this because it's consistent and you don't have too pray "please crit please crit please crit". This is also why I will sometimes forsake IE. If I build it, I will also want 2 phantoms and maybe a ghostblade so I can get those consistent crits. with boots that 5 items, which leaves only 1 swing item (has to be last wisper if vs heavy armor)


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D”A

Senior Member

07-29-2012

They need to make it more of a jungler item than an AD carry item. They need to find a way to tweak it so junglers have two different options off madreds instead of instalock wriggles.

I see no reason to buy it as an AD unless its a hilariously late item. Otherwise MR counters your Mid and Bottom lanes.