Why elo hell does not exist and why that is good

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Guppers

Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrChampagne View Post
Honestly, half the reason the Elo discrepancy exists is because of noobs using their excelerated Elo gain/loss from when they start playing to get themselves into a low low range. And there is a disadvantage to this low Elo. The lower Elo games generally rely on how well players know how to push objectives. If you win a Baron contest at 35 minutes in 1400+ Elo, that can win the game. The same situation at 800 Elo could mean everybody wants to sit around, forget about lane pressure, objectives, and wants to do everything except push. This generally results in allowing late game champs to wreak havoc as the clock ticks.

I'm not saying that there's an evelyn/soraka bot lane duo queue trolling every match at low Elo, but there are fundamental differences in the way that player generally address objectives that makes it easier for the concept of Elo Hell to exist.
yes players do play more poorly at a lower ELO but that makes sense. People seem to not be understanding the math involved and they don't refute the math they just say "but I'm still low elo and I shouldn't be so elo hell exists" I can't tell you how painful this train of logic is to hear.

Since everyone seems to weight anecdotal evidence over math let me put it in terms of anecdotal evidence. There are ZERO cases of someone who is already in a high elo dropping their elo on purpose and then NOT being able to raise it again because of bad players. In fact players who actually have smurf accounts (if you are always in 600 elo and you have a 2nd account that is not a smurf account, it's just your 'other' account) have the problem of getting ELO too fast. They have to queue dodge just to keep it low.

These players DO lose games because of other players trolling and being terrible, they can't help that just like you can't. BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the little things they do in game to get advantages culminate in their team winning one extra teambattle and therefore the game. On the contrary, YOU didn't get wolves before blue, YOU are not last hitting quite as many minions that you could, YOU are not taking their wraiths after you've pushed mid to the turret and leaving one to counter jungle, etc, etc.

Obviously these are generic I'm not outing anyone specific, but you know who you are. Instead of focusing on what other people should have been doing look for all the little tiny things that went wrong in your own play. Maybe you did a risky play and you were both 1 hit from killing each other and he won, well you need to figure out if you should have done something different or not engaged at all.

Please people, look for fault in your own play and TRULY scrutinize yourself, I'm not exaggerating when i say YOU CANNOT GET BETTER IF YOU DON'T ANALYZE YOUR WEAKNESSES!!!!!


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parks

Junior Member

08-18-2012

1000-1200 elo is still joke and mostly a **** shoot to get out of.


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Flagrock

Senior Member

08-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guppers View Post
to all of the people dissenting to what I said in OP, you aren't arguing against any logical point I made, you just keep saying, "I did everything right and still lost, therefore elo hell exists."

my point remains that yes, you will play plenty of games where you do everything right tha you can, buy wards, don't die, etc. and you will still lose because of others. But the times yo win is when that is happening to the other team, and over a long number of games, it's going to happen to the other team and to yourself in a proportion that settles you in the elo that you belong at because of the consistency of how well you play (for everyone in this "elo hell" you are quick to mention the times that other lose it for you, but you know there are plenty of times when you get rocked in your own lane simply because you got outplayed, if you are say otherwise I call you a liar)

unless you can find a flaw in my argument that isn't based on anecdotal evidence "I do the right thing 99/100 games and I still lose rawr" then this also means that you might have to accept that fact that you might belong in a sub 800 elo.

One final point: the rating system is relative to the other players, meaning that a certain % of people must be in bottom % is of 1200 and below is, and statistically speaking if that's where you are right now, that's where you are going to remain unless you take steps to improve yourself instead of blaming others.
I agree that statistically that after 1000 games you should be around the elo you deserve. So, OP have you played 1000 ranked games yet, or even regular games? I know in 2 years of playing I have put in about 700 games. So, in another 2 years if I spam ranked and keep about the same amount of games played I will finally end up at the ELO I deserve, yay.
In all reality, this is the problem with the zone know as the "ELO HELL". I have played about 30 ranked games now and to be honest, I am a bit under 50% win rate. The biggest reason people are unhappy about the "elo hell" range is because the amount of games you must play to climb out. Unless you are extremely lucky, amazing, or beat statistics, you will have to play probably +50 games to get out. Also, with your elo loss HIGHER than elo gain, this makes it even harder. Then you must consider if your main position is say support, you are going to have a much harder time carrying people because you are not someone who can kill the enemy effectively. This is the biggest problem with the "elo hell" zone. If I could play my main position (jungler) every game for 25-50 games, I'd probably be out of the "elo hell" bracket and at least 1250-1300. But that's the biggest issue. You have to fill the role your team needs whether it be supporting an ad carry who gets grabbed by blitz every single pull, or playing middle when you got hard countered on the only middle you have that isn't banned.
Elo Hell does exist. I agree you statistically can climb out and after a while you will be at the place you deserve. There is always room for improvements. But, do you really want to play 1000 (100 is the lowest amount for stats to be really meaningful) games to get out of the hell? I know that I don't have time to play 1000 games at 20-60 minutes per game. 1000 hours of LoL will start to make anyone better. So, yes elo hell does exist, and no it is not a good thing.


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Mr Charlie Bacon

Junior Member

08-18-2012

Not on the topic, but related - I have a friend who is a platinum player. He had been at 1.9k - 2k rating for well over 2 months, and before that, he was steadily 1.6k, he ended last season as a Gold rated player.

He is currently under 1.5k elo due to it being the summer holidays, and in 90% of games (and every game I have spectated him in, I enjoy watching him to try and get better myself) there has been a leaver or intentional feeder.

My point is that regardless of what elo you are at, there is always, ALWAYS going to be a chance that you drop below the elo you are a player of, because you just get stuck with sucky teams.

It's common for some players to go 10/2/10 and still lose, most of the time, because the rest of their team sucked.


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Mr Charlie Bacon

Junior Member

08-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guppers View Post
i've played thousands of games
I just looked you up on lolking, you've played around 500 ranked games. Unless you've played 1500+ normals, you're exaggerating ^^


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K4jove

Member

08-19-2012

Elo hell doesnt exist ... After my first 50 games i went 600 elo ... Yea i know this rlly bad, but anyone who is good in math will never think elo hell exist cause the other team have more chance to get feeder and leaver than you YES U WILL GET A LOT OF LEAVER AND FEEDER but the other team too.

After 2 months im finally in 1200 elo and its getting better every week. Even if i had 600 elo and i had a poor team everygame i still believe u have the elo u deserve ( after your first 50 games ). Sometimes u get some games that u have 0% chance of winning cause of feeders early game or leavers. But guess what, raging about em wont make u better ...

The only way u can get out of " elo hell " is trying to play like a team, try to gank even if u are adc.. NEVER BUT NEVER RAGE ABOUT SOMEONE IN YOUR TEAM... Im pretty sure u guys are smart and u notice a lot of people ragequit when their team is raging on em.


Sorry for my bad english :P


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1234567890

Member

08-19-2012

I am currently at 1000ish elo. I have made mistakes that brought me here and have faced numerous trolls. But one thing i know is that it is possible to bring myself out since my wins and losses are solid. But when i win, i normally do very well and when i lose, i normally do not. So i know its all me and not my teammates. Also it has nothing to do with carrying myself out since i play tank junglers like Amumu Malphite Shen etc


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Harninger

Junior Member

08-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semiwestern View Post
Im sorry but i dont agree with this. I gave up awhile ago on trying to raise my Elo. Now instead of getting pissed at bad teammates and not enjoying the game at all, I just do as well as I can. I focus on winning my lane, and trying to work with what I am given. The thing is, is that at 1200ish elo, some people just flat out suck/leave/troll too much for me to be able to carry myself out.

Congrats to the people that did carry themselves out (almost definitely by duoing), but I play team ranked games with guys that were ranked in the top 5 on the european servers and do as well if not better than them in every game. The system is quite messed up in my opinion, and I'm definitely not the first person to say this.
True. I got into elo hell from just feeding and not working with my team. Now that I have practiced in normal games and perform very well in ranked I cannot win when teammates constantly go AFK, refuse to discuss champion selection or just straight feed the enemy team. I find it really frustrating that ranked only seems to work with those who have ranked teams or a duo partner. For those of us flying solo I definitely think the ranked system is broken and not a direct reflection of personal skill.


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Im Ted and I KS

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3RG3 View Post
I don't disagree that it's entirely possible to run into terrible enemy teams (or cases where half their team is afk / trolling). I do disagree with touting that ELO hell is nonsense when I'm seeing, raising ELO around 1300, what people in the 500-800 bracket are saying keeps them from winning games.
Took a look at your profile man, and you are NOT perfect. Far from it. You ARE a strong player and I'm sure have a positive impact on your team, but your claims in posts is that you are doing everything right and it is all your teammates faults, which is almost never the case. I admit that I constantly make mistakes. My KDR is positive on EVERY character i play in ranked but i'm nowhere near perfect and I know I'm constantly doing things wrong. You have to look at your mistakes in a game. Yeah, theres some games you cannot win, but most of them you can. Just like theres some games that you can go 0/8 and have your team carry you.


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Rillain

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Soooo I climbed out of 900 elo to 1200 elo without really improving my skill level... makes me think about all the comments about me belonging in whatever elo I'm at in any given time...