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Champion Creation Tips v3

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Katsuni

Senior Member

05-13-2012

Thanks muchly. It's a nice resource, but it's kind of intimidating, honestly, and it'll just become more so over time.

Still, there's little else that can be done. For this level of information, it requires a lot of space to be covered properly.

Bumps are appreciated, as I can't always babysit it, and I'd like to ensure that people get the advantage of making use of such.


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ElementSteel

Senior Member

05-15-2012

Aye aye *Salute*
I shall stealth bump when need be.

*Spins away*


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Who is Sexy

Senior Member

05-17-2012

Hey looks like a nice guide and really well done but I have to say its a bit too long for me to read. Will probably just check specific parts but still, good work!


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ElementSteel

Senior Member

05-17-2012

Quote:
Katsuni:
Thanks element steel, yeu are a true patriot, a fish of the nation of hamburgers, and now, we strike the very heart of the sour cream! ONWARD, TO GLORY!


Aye...lead me...to glory...
*Dons his fish armor and equips his fish sabre*


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Katsuni

Senior Member

05-17-2012

Quote:
Morphtronics:
Hey looks like a nice guide and really well done but I have to say its a bit too long for me to read. Will probably just check specific parts but still, good work!

Yarr, it's kind of the point. It's like trying to read through an encyclopedia in one sitting - yeu're not actually supposed to XD

The Index B has short versions of everything if yeu just need a quick brush up on a topic, but the full length articles are designed to be a "final word" on each one, so that yeu have a single place to stop for information on an issue.

If yeu want, yeu could probably read through Index B in one sitting, but by the time the full guide's done, I don't think anyone could sit through the whole thing in one go. It'd be like a marathon session where people enter it into the world's records book for accomplishments XD

Sadly, such is the cost of providing information. Sometimes, it just can't be dished out in small packages. Some concepts simply require explaining in more depth =3
Quote:
ElementSteel:
Aye...lead me...to glory...
*Dons his fish armor and equips his fish sabre*

Wewt wewt fishsauce GO!


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Foresnova

Senior Member

05-17-2012

I must say awesome and epic guide
Thumbs up from me.

I most say I agree with mostly everything, however the only thing I don't agree with there not being anything unique, first I do think you can create something unique.

Secondly it also depends greatly on what level you're looking at, what I mean by this?
Well I'll try to explain myself a little bit better by using an example.
I've created a champion a long while ago (about 1.5 years ago) and this champion used AS scaling this was something never done before, using AS as a scaling resource.
Now in that way it's unique but if you look at a higher level it's just another form of scaling.
So yes if you look at the highest level you could even say not even one champion is unique, since they can all be controlled by the same key-buttons.
More so they all have the same goal, create fun for the users.

I could even say no one human is unique since they're all made up from quarks(if I'm correct smallest sub-division of particles we know of), but in reality you know just as well as I do that actually person is unique in it's own and how it behaves.

So my point is that champions can most certainly be unique depending on what level you look at them.


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Katsuni

Senior Member

05-17-2012

True enough, Foresnova, it depends on the level at which yeu pick things apart.

The point is, however, to get people to stop being afraid of "normality", for fear of not being "unique" enough. Most of the time, yeu don't need to make something ridiculously complex and "new" to make it interesting, fun, and different from anything that has come before it.

It's too easy to get people to fall into the habit of being "different for the sake of being different", such as making a ranged tank, without any understanding of why a tank would not want to be ranged in the first place.

Sometimes, things haven't been done before, for a reason. Most of the time, it's because it's a very bad idea. There are exceptions, but they are pretty rare.

If yeu understand how something works at a deep, intrinsic level, then yeu don't need to worry about that part anyway. If yeu're trying to make stuff "unique" just because yeu want to be special though, yeu're better off not doing so, until yeu learn a bit more.

The point, in the end, is to deter people from going against the grain without reason to do so. Usually, it just ruins the wood, unless yeu know exactly whot it is yeu're doing.

Anyway, nothing's unique, truly, at a fundamental level. On the other hand, it's still very possible to do something in a manner in which it hasn't been done before. I don't want to see people copy pasting other ideas, or to see abilities taken, word for word, out of other sources. I just don't want them thinking that they have to do something ridiculous at the same time, or to miss the point that rules exist for a reason, and following the book to the letter generally does work, until yeu understand the exceptions.

I welcome yeur thoughts and comments on the matter, though!

When I get around to writing up the full article, I'll be sure to try to explain this distinction in there more clearly ^.^



(Also: Yay! New article up! The first page is 100% done nau =3 Only... 4 more... to go... )


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Foresnova

Senior Member

05-17-2012

Quote:
Katsuni:
True enough, Foresnova, it depends on the level at which yeu pick things apart.

The point is, however, to get people to stop being afraid of "normality", for fear of not being "unique" enough. Most of the time, yeu don't need to make something ridiculously complex and "new" to make it interesting, fun, and different from anything that has come before it.

It's too easy to get people to fall into the habit of being "different for the sake of being different", such as making a ranged tank, without any understanding of why a tank would not want to be ranged in the first place.

Sometimes, things haven't been done before, for a reason. Most of the time, it's because it's a very bad idea. There are exceptions, but they are pretty rare.

If yeu understand how something works at a deep, intrinsic level, then yeu don't need to worry about that part anyway. If yeu're trying to make stuff "unique" just because yeu want to be special though, yeu're better off not doing so, until yeu learn a bit more.

The point, in the end, is to deter people from going against the grain without reason to do so. Usually, it just ruins the wood, unless yeu know exactly whot it is yeu're doing.

Anyway, nothing's unique, truly, at a fundamental level. On the other hand, it's still very possible to do something in a manner in which it hasn't been done before. I don't want to see people copy pasting other ideas, or to see abilities taken, word for word, out of other sources. I just don't want them thinking that they have to do something ridiculous at the same time, or to miss the point that rules exist for a reason, and following the book to the letter generally does work, until yeu understand the exceptions.

I welcome yeur thoughts and comments on the matter, though!

When I get around to writing up the full article, I'll be sure to try to explain this distinction in there more clearly ^.^



(Also: Yay! New article up! The first page is 100% done nau =3 Only... 4 more... to go... )


I most say I agree with this

Imo new champions should offer a different/new feeling to their gameplay, the ranged tank is a good example indeed, it they are many reasons why you would want to make ranged tank, but it also gives a great variety of problems you would have to solve to make it work properly and still make it achieve it's goal.


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Katsuni

Senior Member

05-19-2012

Quote:
Foresnova:
I most say I agree with this

Imo new champions should offer a different/new feeling to their gameplay, the ranged tank is a good example indeed, it they are many reasons why you would want to make ranged tank, but it also gives a great variety of problems you would have to solve to make it work properly and still make it achieve it's goal.

Yarr, yeu still want something that "feels" new.

See, some one like... Ahri, is fairly newish. She hits multiple targets, moves quickly, and tends to hit multiple times in a row with each attack, rather than just one, big burst.

Leona, on the other hand, is basically just Amumu, but less interesting in both character design, and play style. Fiona's the same thing to Master Yi. Same overall feel, but just not as fun.

Unfortunately, there will be errors like this, now and then, especially once yeu start to get more and more champions running around, making it harder to come up with something "new".

That being said, some things should still be avoided. The ranged tank is used as an example, due to there being some significant issues with such. I've tried to make one before, way back in DotA, and realized then the reason why they don't exist. They have a dozen or more major problems with them, and even if yeu manage to bypass or solve those issues, yeu've essentially just turned them back into a melee tank in the process, and haven't really gained anything from it.

Anyway, the point is, that yeu can make something "new" without it being "unique". All of Ahri's spells do damage, and she has a taunt. Sure, it's a skill shot taunt that prevents them from attacking, which does make it act significantly differently than any other taunt, but it's still a taunt.

This kind of design still gives a nice feeling of a new play style, and presents her as an option to play that wasn't available previously. Ezreal, Lux, and Sona, are all after-release champions that don't really do anything in particular, especially new, but do a good job of feeling new in the process.

Others, such as Nidalee, Lee Sin, or Udyr, do make "new" stuff happen, but honestly, it's not that new. Nidalee's spear is a huge part of her game play, yet, it's really just a straight line skill shot that hits minions, same as a lot of champions. The only thing unique about it, is it gets stronger the farther away yeu are, making players interact with it differently than usual. Lee Sin's double use abilities are pretty much all fairly standard effects, and really, the only reason they're interesting is the method in which they're employed.

All it takes to make something feel new, is to simply do something old in a new way that doesn't feel the same as before =3


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Leo Tomita

Senior Member

05-19-2012

i thank you man...deeply..your post help me "clean" a lot all of my concepts, i took like 5 hours to read all of it...but worth it!