Do you think this Champion should go to the League?

Yes! Definitely. 316 52.15%
Maybe, just tweak around the numbers a bit more. 154 25.41%
Not yet, you need to rework a couple skills 72 11.88%
No, this champion wouldn't work out at all. 64 10.56%
Voters: 606. You may not vote on this poll

Tyzone, The Scholar of the Void

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BSMaster

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Geting back to the first page?


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spooge noodle

Junior Member

12-20-2012

I like the idea of this champ


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BSMaster

Senior Member

12-21-2012

LoL. that reply is so short and brief and up to the point.


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Zarkof

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Senior Member

12-21-2012

your formatting makes it so hard to figure out where anything is. You should organize things with quotes, put notes in further quotes, and utilize italics more, but that's just me.


I don't like the idea of this easy true sight/vision. Half the time it'll be useless and half the time it'll be overpowered. I don't see how you can balance something that comes from an item (Hextech Sweeper, which isn't available in SR)

There's nothing unique about this other than the fact that he's the only one who has every spell apply true sight. There is no synergy.


Q: typo "Seconds seconds" after duration scaling numbers. The versatility on this spell is poorly executed. You could offer a Twisted Fate "Pick a Card" mechanic in that you can choose which piece of useless knowledge you pick to throw. The problem you have now is if you need the slow, but are on the blind, what good will that do? You need to be able to react to the game, not predict. The cooldown is also long enough that you have to effectively wait 30+ seconds to get that same cc effect back. There is just too much counterplay to this and not enough reward from having the right effect available at the right time. This is extremely unreliable.

Emphasize skill more than randomness.


W: So this is pretty much Caitlyn traps only they don't cc as long (0.5 to 1 sec is pretty much nothing), and don't grant vision? Extremely underwhelming. There is also very little difference between knock up and stun. The utility of this spell is going to be limited to brush and zoning, as well, but since it doesn't grant vision you won't be able to effectively make use of it to protect against ganks, unless you're actively watching the place you set your trap up in. 1 minute is also pretty short. 4 mins at all ranks or at least rank 1 is more reasonable for a trap.


E: I extremely dislike having to debuff yourself in order to perform a skill. There's just no point. If you have to balance the skill, do it with cooldowns or power of the spell, not adding a debuff cost. You don't mention what the empowered abilities actually do, other than increased range. This is really, really underwhelming. There's a reason they removed Katarina's "Killer Instincts" because it as effectively sacrificing one ability to make the others better. It's the laziest form of synergy you can have.

The mana restore is negligible with the high cooldown. Overall this is a useless skill. My opinion.


R: sleep, stun, same thing. I don't understand why you're concerned about changing the entire spell based on the name of a form of crowd control that is basically the same thing as something else. Just change it to stun and be done with it.

1 sec cc at rank 1 on a long cd ultimate is pretty underwhelming. You don't need to scale things like this on ultimates. Make it the same duration at all ranks. While this is interesting, making your enemies choose which effect they want to suffer, you make the range so large that it will almost always be impossible to escape unless you're already on the edge. Making the damage rely on getting stunned severely limits its reliability as well, which is something you really need on an ultimate. Wouldn't you have to blow a 2 min cd just to have it whiff and do nothing?


R(2): I don't like teleporting enemies based on stationary objects. Anti-pattern of False Choice. You never want to go near one and when you do it just feels terrible because you did something you never should have.


Overall, your scaling is in weird places, you put too much on random effects, and this champion just has 0 reliability. Your E is a waste and your ultimate is 50/50.

this is just how I see it. take it or leave it


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Lurksa

Junior Member

12-21-2012

Hey, I just wanted to post my thoughts on your idea. There are 44 pages of posts, so sorry if I repeat some things that are said by others lol

First off, I love the idea behind the character. A scholar completely absorbed in his books is very compelling to me, and you've done a great job capturing that in the champion's design too. With that in mind, I think there are issues that need tweaking.

Personally, I think this champ would be best played as a support, much like Zyra is. The way he has been designed doesn't fit well as an AP carry or a burst mage; his traps and ultimate are unreliable for damage output and don't bring much damage to the table otherwise. His Q has small base damages as well- 20 to 40 damage lower than other skills at level 1 and even more so at later levels. The scaling also suffers compared to burst mage scaling.
I'll write my review as if I would play this champion support. I would also expect to pick Tyzone to create kill lanes or poke lanes, since he has no shield, heal, or truly reliable hard cc.

His passive is deceptively weak, even though reveals are typically very strong. When playing this champion, I likely wouldn't get much use out of this ability unless fighting in an area with poor vision or against stealth champions. While this would seem like a very strong passive for ganking, lane skirmishes, fights in jungle, and scouting, since I would expect to play this champion as a support, all of these purposes (except scouting) are trumped by wards. Ward coverage in lane bushes helps nullify enemy support poke and reveals champions using brush for fights or escape. This passive would only reveal these champions for 3 seconds in lane, and only if an ability connects- i.e. if you poke the enemy support or land skills during a fight. In both instances the reveal is valuable, but hard to land since the Q is so slow and with a long cooldown, traps can be sidestepped, and wards still trump. If this passive is active on champions who run from fights, it also doesn't last too long- other reveals like Nid and Cait traps can last over 10s with no internal cooldown.

I love the idea of his Q. This ability combos well with his E when he uses a slowing Q for initate. This skill isn't as strong as other skillshot cc skills though. It moves at the same speed, but it has less range and a shorter effect. Lulu's Q for example slows 80% for a few seconds, Lux's Q snares for about 3 seconds, Morgana Q, etc. I think this skill should have an increased missile speed, damage, and reduced cooldown to give make it more satisfying, simply because its already low damage and low CC duration. When that CC lands, it's definitely a powerful skill, but because it's a single target skillshot, it would be hard to hit the targets you want in teamfights.

His traps are pretty cool, but I also think they need work. The cooldown is suitable, but the priming time is far too long to be set up mid fight in a meaningful way (even though the width is nice and high). The damage could again be higher. The biggest downfall of this skill is that the effect of the trap depends on Tyzone's health. While it's a cool idea that the traps he lays become stronger as he loses HP, that means two things. First, Tyzone has no control over what effect his traps will have. Second, enemies have no real way of dealing with his traps (aside from stepping around them). An injured Tyzone can still use his E to increase his placement range of traps, but cannot be involved in fights very strongly since his traps have a long arming time and would have to rely on his long cd E for use on both his Q and W. Enemies would have no way of knowing what kind of CC a trap will trigger as well; Tyzone could place a knockup trap, heal, then return to lane, and there would be no indication that specific trap was a knockup trap.
I think these traps could use redesigning. This is my suggestion:
Void Beacon
Cooldown: 20/18/16/14/12
Arm time: 1.5s
Range: 650
AoE Diameter: 175
Sets a trap at target location lasting 1 min (same appearance). Enemy champions that step into the radius of the trap trigger it and any enemy champions in range are pulled into its center and snared for 1.5s. Deals 70/100/130/160/190 (+0.6 per AP) to champions affected. Tyzone can have 2 traps active at a time.

When enhanced by E:
Increased cast range, increased pull radius.

With this design, Tyzone has better control of its effect and can deploy more effective traps in fights. The pull effect can interrupt enemies if placed well, and these traps would work well for defense and chasing/ initiation. The decreased lifetime of the traps enforces their use in fights, but it still allows you to set traps to secure objectives instead of just blanketing objectives in traps and hope they're stepped in.

His E is one of my favourites. I like that he looks into a portal to the void and digs around- it's a cool idea. The effect is pretty nice too. The mana restoration is good since this champ would probably spam Q a lot. Enhancing his Q and W with this ability is a great idea too. This ability combined with his W give this champion a strong need to plan ahead and anticipate what his opponents will do, then he has the ability to act accordingly.

I like his ultimate, and I don't think it needs much work. I think the channel time is unnecessary since there's already a 2s delay before this ability causes sleep. Personally, in lane, I would use slow Q's to set up good snares, then flash in or get into melee range quickly and cast this ability. The CC from Tyzone's traps would be a great setup for this ultimate- 1-1.5s CC from the trap leaves a fraction of time for an enemy to escape the ultimate's sleep. Also, when chained well with a trap, Tyzone is able to lock down (potentially) one or two champions for about 3-3.5s at later levels (comparable to other cc supports). I think this ulti could use longer sleep duration at early levels, but stay the same later.

A pretty cool design, and I urge you to make some small changes to his skills. I would enjoy playing this guy in bot lane.

And a shameless self plug- would you review my own support design as well?


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BSMaster

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurksa View Post
Hey, I just wanted to post my thoughts on your idea. There are 44 pages of posts, so sorry if I repeat some things that are said by others lol

First off, I love the idea behind the character. A scholar completely absorbed in his books is very compelling to me, and you've done a great job capturing that in the champion's design too. With that in mind, I think there are issues that need tweaking.

Personally, I think this champ would be best played as a support, much like Zyra is. The way he has been designed doesn't fit well as an AP carry or a burst mage; his traps and ultimate are unreliable for damage output and don't bring much damage to the table otherwise. His Q has small base damages as well- 20 to 40 damage lower than other skills at level 1 and even more so at later levels. The scaling also suffers compared to burst mage scaling.
I'll write my review as if I would play this champion support. I would also expect to pick Tyzone to create kill lanes or poke lanes, since he has no shield, heal, or truly reliable hard cc.

His passive is deceptively weak, even though reveals are typically very strong. When playing this champion, I likely wouldn't get much use out of this ability unless fighting in an area with poor vision or against stealth champions. While this would seem like a very strong passive for ganking, lane skirmishes, fights in jungle, and scouting, since I would expect to play this champion as a support, all of these purposes (except scouting) are trumped by wards. Ward coverage in lane bushes helps nullify enemy support poke and reveals champions using brush for fights or escape. This passive would only reveal these champions for 3 seconds in lane, and only if an ability connects- i.e. if you poke the enemy support or land skills during a fight. In both instances the reveal is valuable, but hard to land since the Q is so slow and with a long cooldown, traps can be sidestepped, and wards still trump. If this passive is active on champions who run from fights, it also doesn't last too long- other reveals like Nid and Cait traps can last over 10s with no internal cooldown.

Hmm.... I see, so I'll probably change the Q skillshot a bit and increase the duration of the reveal, since in the past of the thread, a lot of people complained how a 11 second reveal was OP, but it got tuned down multiple times.

I love the idea of his Q. This ability combos well with his E when he uses a slowing Q for initate. This skill isn't as strong as other skillshot cc skills though. It moves at the same speed, but it has less range and a shorter effect. Lulu's Q for example slows 80% for a few seconds, Lux's Q snares for about 3 seconds, Morgana Q, etc. I think this skill should have an increased missile speed, damage, and reduced cooldown to give make it more satisfying, simply because its already low damage and low CC duration. When that CC lands, it's definitely a powerful skill, but because it's a single target skillshot, it would be hard to hit the targets you want in teamfights.

Like I said to your comment above, I will probably change the Q skill stats and the skill is supposed to demonstrate how much you keep track of what your next skill will be.

His traps are pretty cool, but I also think they need work. The cooldown is suitable, but the priming time is far too long to be set up mid fight in a meaningful way (even though the width is nice and high). The damage could again be higher. The biggest downfall of this skill is that the effect of the trap depends on Tyzone's health. While it's a cool idea that the traps he lays become stronger as he loses HP, that means two things. First, Tyzone has no control over what effect his traps will have. Second, enemies have no real way of dealing with his traps (aside from stepping around them). An injured Tyzone can still use his E to increase his placement range of traps, but cannot be involved in fights very strongly since his traps have a long arming time and would have to rely on his long cd E for use on both his Q and W. Enemies would have no way of knowing what kind of CC a trap will trigger as well; Tyzone could place a knockup trap, heal, then return to lane, and there would be no indication that specific trap was a knockup trap.
I think these traps could use redesigning. This is my suggestion:
Void Beacon
Cooldown: 20/18/16/14/12
Arm time: 1.5s
Range: 650
AoE Diameter: 175
Sets a trap at target location lasting 1 min (same appearance). Enemy champions that step into the radius of the trap trigger it and any enemy champions in range are pulled into its center and snared for 1.5s. Deals 70/100/130/160/190 (+0.6 per AP) to champions affected. Tyzone can have 2 traps active at a time.

Hmm... I'll consider that remake of the skill, but let me test if I can reconfigure a few things.

When enhanced by E:
Increased cast range, increased pull radius.

With this design, Tyzone has better control of its effect and can deploy more effective traps in fights. The pull effect can interrupt enemies if placed well, and these traps would work well for defense and chasing/ initiation. The decreased lifetime of the traps enforces their use in fights, but it still allows you to set traps to secure objectives instead of just blanketing objectives in traps and hope they're stepped in.

His E is one of my favourites. I like that he looks into a portal to the void and digs around- it's a cool idea. The effect is pretty nice too. The mana restoration is good since this champ would probably spam Q a lot. Enhancing his Q and W with this ability is a great idea too. This ability combined with his W give this champion a strong need to plan ahead and anticipate what his opponents will do, then he has the ability to act accordingly.

Well his E is just a major utility buff to him b/c it gives him one of the fastest skillshots in game. Although I should probably reduce the cooldowns on most skills.

I like his ultimate, and I don't think it needs much work. I think the channel time is unnecessary since there's already a 2s delay before this ability causes sleep. Personally, in lane, I would use slow Q's to set up good snares, then flash in or get into melee range quickly and cast this ability. The CC from Tyzone's traps would be a great setup for this ultimate- 1-1.5s CC from the trap leaves a fraction of time for an enemy to escape the ultimate's sleep. Also, when chained well with a trap, Tyzone is able to lock down (potentially) one or two champions for about 3-3.5s at later levels (comparable to other cc supports). I think this ulti could use longer sleep duration at early levels, but stay the same later.

I'll think about removing the channel time to like Amumu's ult probably, but throughout the thread, people have complained about the sleep mechanic being OP so I think i'll leave the duration numbers the same.

A pretty cool design, and I urge you to make some small changes to his skills. I would enjoy playing this guy in bot lane.

And a shameless self plug- would you review my own support design as well?
When I have time, I'll review yours, thanks for your review.


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BSMaster

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Well this is getting back to the front page.


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BSMaster

Senior Member

12-24-2012

....................................


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BSMaster

Senior Member

12-25-2012

sure sucks all i can do is play ARAM games and wait for this to get noticed by Riot


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BSMaster

Senior Member

12-26-2012

Almost 33k views lol...its just at 32,999 views.