Inspiration for Shurima

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Cookiehime

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

The incandescent sun hovers over the endless sea of dunes. The golden sands stretch out as far as the eye can see. The intense heat of the arid landscape burns through the skin.

The deserts of Shurima are timeless.


Greetings,

For the upcoming Shurima event, I'd like to share some songs to all the creative staff working on the project.

1. http://youtu.be/MDG1rIz1S7k

2. http://youtu.be/n6jhobdC-UQ

3. http://youtu.be/VbHsMAQtrRM

4. http://youtu.be/Z6CDU4A4ksI

They could serve as a source of inspiration. The vocals and instruments used are truly beautiful and inspirational (It's mostly Yoko Kanno stuff minus one of them, but hey, maybe you'll like it). Got plenty of feels from them.

Also, please, we beg you... do not retcon the origins of champions who are affiliated with Shurima deserts, no matter how minor that affiliation seems to be. Build upon those characters. Create new conflicts that don't have to erase their past and origins.

Retcon is synonymous to death for fictional characters.

We don't want them to die. (Nasus, Renekton... please... don't die!)

Please. Heed our plea.



Thank you.


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Gentleman Gaston

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Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiehime View Post
Retcon is synonymous to death for fictional characters.
While I love your musical selection (Yoko Kanno is an absolute boss) and I'll even throw out my own choice as some inspirational Shurima themed music, I think this line of thought is dangerous.

A retcon is synonymous with change, not death. The only true "death" of a character through retconning we've seen was old Trundle, but that's a separate topic. The main issue I have with the statement is it's claiming that "backstory" and "character" are the same thing when that's not at all true. Let's take Nasus for instance: a powerful and wise ancient guardian of knowledge. Oh, also he's from a different dimension, or something. Does that make his character? Is "I'm literally from another world" what defines Nasus? No, it isn't. I'd opt that changing this bit of trivia wouldn't alter Nasus as a character, and could potentially bring his character more in line with the rest of the world.

Obviously there are cases where you can change to much and risk losing the spirit of the character (Udyr), but to argue that change itself is death is a faulty argument.


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Cookiehime

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

But isn't Nasus's character tied to his backstory? How is the writer going to translate him leaving his own people to help those who summoned him? He trusted his people to carry on the struggle without him for he believed in them. Isn't that wisdom enough?

I can agree that retcon can be synonymous to change. However, it is a process where some things are inevitably lost. E.g: Nasus leaving his people to keep fighting without him for he believed in them and helping the Runeterrans who needed him. Don't you think that it is a very noble thing to do? Take that away, what will it be replaced with?

Change his backstory, and he will not be the same person because he would have lived a different experience. He will be "reborn" as someone else. He will share only similarities with the old Nasus, but the Nasus that we know now will not exist anymore. I'm 100 percent okay with new characters who value wisdom. There are already some characters who share similarities. E.g: Zed/Syndra are against balance and desire power, very anti-Ionian and that's why they look good together. Swain/LeBlanc both use deception and cunning and that's why they're such great partners. Lucian and Vayne have a grudge against undead and black magicks and I wouldn't be surprised if they teamed up on a quest to eliminate "evil".

There are many champions who share similar values and that's why they team up or are listed as 'friends'. It's not necessary to have only one person who impersonates wisdom. Characters are far more than just themes.

Okay, To describe what I'm thinking in a more opaque manner let's say I had the power to change your life. I'm some kind of magician who can alter your past and origins on a whim. Let's say you were originally born in America from American parents. I decide to use my magic to change that because I think you don't belong in America nor to American parents. You are suddenly born in Australia and are from Australian parents because I think it's better for you. You would be the same type of person with a similar personality as the person you were as an American. Wouldn't you lose something though? Your true past and the memories you had shared with your American parents living in America no longer exist. Wouldn't the "real you" no longer exist?

Heck, maybe a retcon is a fate worse than death. You are written out of existence and replaced by someone else because your origins have been altered.

Is that really a dangerous line of thought? Yes, maybe. But I think it's not 100 percent unjustified.

Old Nasus can still develop as a character. For example, by guiding the people of Shurima and treating them as his own, passing down the knowledge and wisdom he had acquired from where he originally came from. Maybe try to rebuild Shurima from its ashes, striving to make it a city-state because he's actually a good guy who wants what's best for the people of Shurima. They have lived in dire conditions since the Rune Wars and he may want to change that. That could be one of the many reasons he joins League.

If he was just an ancient creature locked up in a pyramid, he'd have a more bare-bones origin than what he has now.

So to try to merge old and new, I present you with a solution. Keep his origins, but change a few events that led him to join League (Which I find very superficial myself). Have him be summoned during the Rune Wars, but due to unknown circumstances that the writers can easily create, have him locked up in a pyramid. He was imprisoned there and slept for what seems like eons. He did not see the fall of the city that originally summoned him. Then Sivir finally discovers him while treasure-hunting and he finds that Shurima has fallen. Now he joins League to attempt to rebuild Shurima, teaching and sharing his wisdom with the nomads who live there.

What do you think?


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LordHippoman

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

I hate the retconning of our champions. I hate what they did to Trundle. I hate what they did to Katarina with a passion (ba dum chhh). But Nasus and Renekton I think wouldn't be hurt too much by that retcon. If it integrates them more into the main plot, and less of them just sorta being...there (ala Morg/Kayle, who have the same problem), I'd be fine with it.

I do like your idea of merging the Lores instead of rewriting the old one. I think maybe Nasus spending time in and making Shurima his home could be good, since it would probably remind him of Desert Planet #342 he came from. Surely there's some kind of conflict there you could work him and Renekton into. I'm most worried about Cassiopeia. Don't sever another sibling pair please. Sejuani is lonely.

I'm definitely more in favor of the "Part 2" or extension Lore rewrites than the full on, Trundle style "No, you never happened" rewrites. We'll just see what happens when we get our Shurima event. Any day now. Maybe. I hope.


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Gentleman Gaston

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Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiehime View Post
Heck, maybe a retcon is a fate worse than death. You are written out of existence and replaced by someone else because your origins have been altered.
Right, but at the end of the day I'm not a fictional character (Surprise!). Changing aspects of my upbringing would no doubt have some effect on who I am today (some more than others), but it wouldn't really serve any purpose. There's no overarching narrative being orchestrated by a omnipresent puppet-master that would determine my nation of birth to be of consequence to some master plan.

But in fiction there is. In fiction every word matters (or, it should) and every scene is significant because it was specifically chosen by the writer. There are underlying currents of meaning (or, in some literature, lack thereof), metaphor, and imagery. Typically this is done once and then the work is published and that's the end, but with MOBAs the game and, therefore, narrative are constantly changing (unless you have a static narrative but that's no fun). Also we have a massive divide in consistency between Babaganoosh and the present era. Whether you like one over the other is irrelevant: Babaganoosh is gone and the current Creative team isn't going anywhere. And so, for example, older champions with extraplanetary origins which fit fine in the much more scattered world we had before don't fit in the current one aiming for consistency. It is a sad truth that things are going to change. Certainly not everything, but some things.

As for Nasus, I don't understand why he can't just be an Ancient Shurimian living-deity who was trapped/locked away until the present. In my mind it changes absolutely nothing about his character. Looking over it again any expansion on his character would be a benefit, retcon or not. His background is really weak.

Also, they just did a VU on the guy, so it's incredibly unlikely anything other than some details with his origin would be changed. He'd still be Nasus.


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SecretLore

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiehime View Post
But isn't Nasus's character tied to his backstory? How is the writer going to translate him leaving his own people to help those who summoned him? He trusted his people to carry on the struggle without him for he believed in them. Isn't that wisdom enough?
There are other reasons,for me it actually soudns more like a pretty bad idea to leave your homeworld,where some of your species think of themselves as gods and want to rule over others,while the library you were guarding together with your brother just lost nasus and renekton(ok renekton probably already before,because of his rage),the league has already so many champs,its not like one more or less would actually hurt that much.

there are also other ways how to give nasus a similar backstory that more or less establishes the same character,I mean if he'd be from ancient shurima,then there would be a reason why he is still alive and the rest not,which means in some form or another he didn't/couldn't prevent shurimas downfall.


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Sharjo

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

At the end of the day, Nasus already mentions Shurima in his VU in a way that implies he has a lot of history with it.

He's getting retconned, as will Renekton. Is that bad? I dunno. Personally I don't think retcons like this one are the same as retcons ala Trundle, whereby old Trundle is literally a different character. Nasus is still Nasus no matter his backstory. The personality, the attitude, it all stays the same. Personally I'll wait to give a verdict on whether there's a compelling and interesting story that comes out of the retcon when said retcon and story happens. Ain't no point in being like "No Rito! Don't do it!" When there's nothing that's been done yet. Nasus is always going to be Nasus. If Nasus is better suited to being a part of Shurima, then I'd say "make it work and make it work well.". We can debate the value of retcons for a long sodding time (and we have) but I'd rather wait to see what actually happens before giving a verdict, rather than condemning it before it happens.

(Also keep in mind that it might not happen!)


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SchaakaKon

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

I dont know why everyone is bashing on the Trundle retcon. The old Trundle was incredibly bland where the new one is fun to play.

But as to a Nasus lore rework, id really love to know more about his homeworld (same as morg/kayle) but i dont see Riot doing that so making him an ancient from Shurmia is the next best thing, i suppose. Imo, either expand his current lore (explore his homeworld) or make him apart of Runetera. His current state im no fan of


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Gentleman Gaston

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Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchaakaKon View Post
I dont know why everyone is bashing on the Trundle retcon. The old Trundle was incredibly bland where the new one is fun to play.

But as to a Nasus lore rework, id really love to know more about his homeworld (same as morg/kayle) but i dont see Riot doing that so making him an ancient from Shurmia is the next best thing, i suppose. Imo, either expand his current lore (explore his homeworld) or make him apart of Runetera. His current state im no fan of
I'm not bashing the Trundle retcon, just claiming that such an extensive retcon of history and personality utterly changed the character. I like both characters, but contest that the narrative direction for original Trundle was too short-sighted.

Another world would be interesting to learn about, but I'd rather learn about ancient Shurimian culture and history. More bang for the buck with that.


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Cookiehime

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

*sigh*

Okay, maybe I was being a bit hostile there. I apologize.

But after reading about what happened to Trundle, Warwick, Soraka, Karthus, etc., I cannot help but feel a little concerned you know?

I had read Karthus' new lore and it was not bad. However, I can't see any trace of the Deathsinger he used to be. He's more like the Deathpreacher now.

Yeah, his original "spooky boogeyman from the marshes" background was kinda boring, but when I read what he said in the JoJ, I thought, "Wow! I did not know you were a deep and tragic character Karthus! Now I see why they call you the Deathsinger!"

I might get some flak for saying this, but imo old Karthus was thematically better (not necessarily in-game though, just lore-wise). Just by reading what he said in the JoJ, I could figure out what happened to him. His love song became a song of Death after he relinquished his mortality. This is how he became the "Deathsinger."

That is the kind of situation that I don't want the writers and the lore-fans to get into. I think that the lore team needs to find a way to preserve the essence of the characters they are retconning. Because if they don't, what made the characters who they are will be lost. Forever.


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