Hybrid Penetration Idea: Sacrificial Dagger and Whisper of the Void

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Xela Syab

Senior Member

07-31-2012

Bump also this item would be a solid pick for offtanks like Xin Zhao and Irelia.


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Lazreal

Senior Member

08-01-2012

You know RIOT has taken the stand many times saying "We will not make it possible to give everything you need in 1 item slot"

So that being said, we may never see a Hybrid Penetration Item, however if we do, it will be fairly weak or over-costed. Because Building armor should feel Valuable not Dismal, and building straight up damage has the same effect as penetration to a degree. So don't go looking for a way to penetrate 200-300 armor, never gonna happen. We already have about 100 ARMOR pen, and since MR isn't as high as armor we don't need much Magic Pen.


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

08-01-2012

After having talked and come up with my own hybrid item concept I have learned that giving to much in an item does likely result in to much snow balling and too few limitations..

This item has 55 AD and 70AP which is more basic stats then gunblade offers while also giving 20% armor and magic pen. With stats like that it would likely be less useful for dealing with tanky champs and more ideal for just ripping through squishies.

Champs like akali and Jax who are the most likely to get this item doen't have trouble cutting through squishy champs already but they do have issues when they enemy team all starts to build armor and MR that is when % penetration becomes useful.

As Lazreal stated above me your item just seems to have everything in one, high stats, % pen and a stacking CDR.

IF you are building % pen then you should be giving up on raw damage to get it. Example is getting LW instead of a BT or getting Void staff instead of Zhonya's Hourglass the more armor or MR the enemy has the better LW and VS are.


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Xela Syab

Senior Member

08-17-2012

bump


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Xela Syab

Senior Member

08-19-2012

added picks from the League of legends wiki from old alpha items ancient pocket watch and old hexdrinker.


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Xela Syab

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaP616 View Post
After having talked and come up with my own hybrid item concept I have learned that giving to much in an item does likely result in to much snow balling and too few limitations..

This item has 55 AD and 70AP which is more basic stats then gunblade offers while also giving 20% armor and magic pen. With stats like that it would likely be less useful for dealing with tanky champs and more ideal for just ripping through squishies.

Champs like akali and Jax who are the most likely to get this item doen't have trouble cutting through squishy champs already but they do have issues when they enemy team all starts to build armor and MR that is when % penetration becomes useful.

As Lazreal stated above me your item just seems to have everything in one, high stats, % pen and a stacking CDR.

IF you are building % pen then you should be giving up on raw damage to get it. Example is getting LW instead of a BT or getting Void staff instead of Zhonya's Hourglass the more armor or MR the enemy has the better LW and VS are.
I don't think there should be a hybrid item designed to rip through tanks, because there really isn't any itemization for hybrid defense besides Aegis of Legion and Guardian Angel, hence why I kept it at 20%. Hybrids and offtanks are designed as janitors for taking care of squishies so why not have an item that helps them with that late game when mages/carries grab BV and Frozen Heart? It's not really to counter their defense but to get more damage output. The other reason why I added the cdr proc was because there is really few options for offtanks and hybrids for cdr. Sure there's Nashors and Ionic Boots but what if you need Ad or more Ap and cc reduction from merc treads?

This item really isn't an all in one, for one thing there's no attack speed which hybrids utilize the most of any class, there's no sustain and the stats are just a bit higher than Hextech and doesn't have the nice active ability that does a nuke slow, so hextech is better for rushing, the passive is situational so unless you're in combat all the time you can't really utilize it and is detrimental if you have a great ultimate with a high cd (Which Hybrids really don't, Kayle and Shaco is the exception). Essentially if the item ever were to exist, most would just get Sacrificial dagger for the raw stats and cdr since they'd benefit from them better than Brutalizer or Fiendish Codex then build Whisper of the Void late game after Trinity Force, Zeke's Herald, Nashor's Tooth, Hextech Gunblade, or Guinisoos Rageblade.

I've looked at your Hybrid pen Item and the problem is: why buy it if I need Rabadon's just to get 20-25% armor pen? It's an ok idea, just seems impractical.


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Qeuscis

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Imagine if Jax had a REAL hybrid item. (Oh god)


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Ikimono

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Senior Member

08-19-2012

If hybrid champs weren't so borderline OP (balacing Kayle, Jax, Kogmaw, Teemo has been a difficult issue in the past) I would be all for this. I would love to see this in the PBE so we could try it out, i think it could work well, or it could be less than useful. Either way, trying it couldnt hurt.


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

08-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xela Syab View Post
I don't think there should be a hybrid item designed to rip through tanks, because there really isn't any itemization for hybrid defense besides Aegis of Legion and Guardian Angel, hence why I kept it at 20%. Hybrids and offtanks are designed as janitors for taking care of squishies so why not have an item that helps them with that late game when mages/carries grab BV and Frozen Heart? It's not really to counter their defense but to get more damage output. The other reason why I added the cdr proc was because there is really few options for offtanks and hybrids for cdr. Sure there's Nashors and Ionic Boots but what if you need Ad or more Ap and cc reduction from merc treads?

This item really isn't an all in one, for one thing there's no attack speed which hybrids utilize the most of any class, there's no sustain and the stats are just a bit higher than Hextech and doesn't have the nice active ability that does a nuke slow, so hextech is better for rushing, the passive is situational so unless you're in combat all the time you can't really utilize it and is detrimental if you have a great ultimate with a high cd (Which Hybrids really don't, Kayle and Shaco is the exception). Essentially if the item ever were to exist, most would just get Sacrificial dagger for the raw stats and cdr since they'd benefit from them better than Brutalizer or Fiendish Codex then build Whisper of the Void late game after Trinity Force, Zeke's Herald, Nashor's Tooth, Hextech Gunblade, or Guinisoos Rageblade.

I've looked at your Hybrid pen Item and the problem is: why buy it if I need Rabadon's just to get 20-25% armor pen? It's an ok idea, just seems impractical.
The issue with your item is that there is no rela scarifice in getting it with say last whisper for 52% pen.

Most champions to some degree can take advantage of AD and AP so who is to say that they wouldn't have this item become a standard must but item instead of a situational item.

IF you are talking about my item it is still jsut a item concept I am not saying it s perfect but it does have elements that prevent it from being abused with last whisper or void staff. You item does not have any kind of limitation when it comes to being mixed with other % penatration items.

IF you want one of the worst case situations, take Darius with his passive on E, last whisper, Whisper of the Void, and weapon experties with this combo you would have Darius getting 67.6% pen at all times. he would be getting 95 AD from the two items leaving hime the option to build really tanky with 3 other items or say a frozen heart, BT and a GA.


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Xela Syab

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Reviving this thread since I think there's opportunity for a hybrid penetration item.