Blue team vs Purple team (Imbalanced Advantage)

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NuEloS

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Senior Member

04-23-2012

I'm currently playing in normal draft or blind pick mode. Finding the current meta-game a bit boring, I always experiment some working ways to break away from current meta-game.

Moving away from the current meta-game, few times I picked swain as solo top.

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Probably I will be down-voted for this post by someone who will just mention thing such as "buy wards, don't overpush, u are ****** for picking swain top, etc".

I will mention this before hand, the problem does not lies in the fact that I'm having trouble as Solo top Swain or why i'm picking swain as Solo top. The problem lies in the fact that I need to put extra effort and gold in certain side compared to the other side. For why I'm picking Top Swain: I'm experimenting.

And finally, I'm not saying the lane is imbalanced due to the fact that Swain cannot operate equally both side, I'm just using examples from the champs I know well enough for me to have concrete standings on my comment.
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and here is what I find:

=>Swain as solo top in blue team is far more successful than Swain solo top purple.

Why purple team is not good for Swain solo top:
1. Purple most top bush distance to purple tower is pretty close, and as a result blue champs can hide and and harrass my Swain much easier, while blue jungler can also hide in the top most bush and gank me much easier. (Smart foe will realize that Swain need vision, so will often utilize top bush)

2. Due to above reason, it is much harder to lane control in purple team.

3. Blue Jungler have greater access to purple champ top lane. I did personally count the number of enemies ganks I got playing as Blue and Purple. Solo top Swain Purple are ganked more often than in Blue solo top Swain.

4. For the above reason, as Top purple swain, I need to buy more wards for bush, river, etc. And this mean it cost more money as purple solo top Swain.

5. Lane cs and control is also much harder due to the fact that i must maintain my ward, and keep awareness over enemies possible ganks. Constant exposure to most top bush is a large factor in this.

6. Far away from blue buff, stealing is possible, but there's always more risk attached to it. Swain has hard time sustaining without blue buff.

7. Perhaps, my team Purple jungler have harder time to gank top due to the map design (1 ward for blue at river, is enough most of the time)

8. Ganker and Top champs can come at me in more than 1 direction (due to more access point to Purple top), this is very troubling to stop them with a single talon strike.

9. Unlike Most solo top champ, Swain is not tanky enough before lvl 6 and has no real escape mechanism. Getting more ganks as Purple will cost Swain efficiency in Growth rate.


Why Blue team is good for Swain solo top.
1. Top most bush have much farther distance to blue tower, it's harder for opponent champs to try and harrass me.

2. Lane Control is much easier since you are most likely to have opponent champ in your vision, and takes a little effort to avoid harass. And it is easy as Swain to keep creeps between the bush and your tower, Swain will face very small risk of getting harassed and ganked in this position. In fact, it's easier for me to harass opponent solo top. In other word, Blue Solo top Swain is less exposed to the most top Bush compared to Purple Solo top Swain.

3. Maintaining creep between bush and tower (only possible in Blue Team), Purple jungler can't gank me due to the distance I maintain (I'm practically very close to tower without losing creeps to tower). This is possible, since Purple Jungler have only 1 access point to my position, which is River only (and the least likely ganks from my blue buff).

4. Similarly, I'm least likely to get caught by purple jungler hiding in top most bush (There's no point for me to go there, unless for what i think will yield me a definite kill ofc).

5. If it happens I need to be aware of Ganks, I only need 1 wards, which is at River. Very cost effective, and if necessary I could also protect my blue buff (and get a free kill xD).

6. Very close to Blue buff.

7. Enemies will most of the time come at me at 1 direction only, it's very easy to stop them with a single Talon strike.

8. My Blue Jungler seems to gank opponent Purple top champ much easier, due to the fact that I'm able to keep the creeps between the bush and my blue tower.

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The above reasons make it hard for Swain to be Solo top champ, since:
1. You can't chose your side.
2. Switching with bot lanes when you get purple team is not an option (you will face 2 champs, and most importantly Dragon and Purple blue buff will be at very high risk of being stolen).
3. Purple Solo top Swain risk more ganks and also lose some efficiency in growth rate (cost of wards, less cs, etc), this problem is close to none when you play as Blue Solo top Swain. It does not worth to pick Swain as solo top when you are on purple team.

Edit: Keirndmo point out that we can see what color of our team before the match start, how foolish of me to just notice it now ==. Thx Keirndmo
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I wished riot makes the map design more balanced, I feel more hero such as Swain, Shaco, etc are getting the bias of the current terrain.

As for solutions, honestly, it's hard to think of one without much consequences.


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Keirndmo

Senior Member

04-24-2012

This is already known that the map is unbalanced.
You forgot to mention the camera isn't the same on purple.
Also you can look at which team your on by looking at the words at the top of your team called "Your team." and whatever color it is that will be the side your on.


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NuEloS

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Senior Member

04-24-2012

So far, I don't think I have camera angle problem, it's working fine with me (maybe there is, but I'm not aware of it). Just that smarter play, more awareness, more evasive maneuver, more wards, etc are needed for Purple solo top Swain, which all of those are really unneeded as Blue solo top Swain.


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jellypwnage

Junior Member

04-24-2012

Keep in mind that the map is somewhat symmetrical (if only diagonal along the river). So many of the problems you have as swain in top lane, the opposing bot lane also has. As for wards, there are two entrances to each half of the river from the opposing jungle. Just ward them both, and you'll know if the opposing jungler is invading your jungle, ganking from river, or whatever. Two wards in the top river can keep you completely safe, and they don't both have to come from you. Competent Mid-laners and junglers should help you out with warding.

Which team your on should factor into your choice on choosing what champ you play. If you're on purple side, and having mana problems without blue as swain, considering simply playing another champ. Maybe one who can take advantage of the close red buff and double golems.


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NuEloS

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Senior Member

04-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jellypwnage View Post
Keep in mind that the map is somewhat symmetrical (if only diagonal along the river). So many of the problems you have as swain in top lane, the opposing bot lane also has. As for wards, there are two entrances to each half of the river from the opposing jungle. Just ward them both, and you'll know if the opposing jungler is invading your jungle, ganking from river, or whatever. Two wards in the top river can keep you completely safe, and they don't both have to come from you. Competent Mid-laners and junglers should help you out with warding.
I Disagree, and as I said it before, it's not like I'm having problem with Swain top lane, I'm just stating the fact that There is imbalance in advantage between Blue and Purple. Bot lane don't have much of the troubles due to the fact:
1. They have support, or if not, at least they have double champs. Either one of them (usually support), or even both of them can contribute toward wards.
2. Line control is co-op between support and carry (Factoring out champs potential to aoe and ganks).
3. Bot lane usually have support of some kind, this is what makes both and top different. In other word, bot lane have support for their sustain and protection. While solo top sustain is up to their own self. In Summary, ganks deals more damage for Solo top, and less damage to Bottom. As a proof, just count the game where Top players are screwed 2~3 times because of ganks, compared to bot screwed 2~3 times because of ganks. You'll notice that bottom have more chance to recover and retake their advantage compared to top.


And yes 2 or more wards as purple Solo Top Swain. If you read my 1st post, I don't even need 1 wards as Blue Swain. I only need wards as Solo top blue Swain if I need to protect my Jungle Blue buff or for laying traps for enemies.
Overall, I can summarize it like this: As purple team, I need 2 wards (for perfect awareness) to play defensively as Solo top Swain (since losing top, hurts the team a lot). As Blue team, I need wards in order to be able to play offensively as Solo top Swain.

Mark the difference between Defensively and Offensively Solo top Swain, obviously unless enemy is screwed in the head, Offensively should yield more kills or if not free CS.


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Dustrerk

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Junior Member

04-24-2012

destroy everything!!!


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EggLovesYou

Junior Member

04-24-2012

wow omg you are the first person to notice this and then post about it you are such a genius i never noticed this before

/sarcasm


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Macrofinite

Junior Member

04-24-2012

The map obviously wasn't designed for the standard 1 top 1 mid 2 bot 1 jungle team distribution... that's just become what people do.

As has been said, the exact same disadvantage exists on the opposite side on bot, which you claim is irrelevant because there are typically 2 people laning bot. I'm not sure that's true, and I'm sure we could find many people to contest that point.

Also, you basically admit that Swain isn't viable solo top:

Quote:
9. Unlike Most solo top champ, Swain is not tanky enough before lvl 6 and has no real escape mechanism. Getting more ganks as Purple will cost Swain efficiency in Growth rate.
Maybe you can get away with it as blue, but there are reasons that certain champs are viewd as strong solo tops, and the fact that you "find the current meta game boring" doesn't really change that. Practically everything you are noting could be negated by using a champ with some form of escape, so I'm not sure on that basis you can claim that blue top is OP.


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NuEloS

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Senior Member

04-24-2012

Not like I'm unaware of another thread either, I'm just pointing out with specific examples.

+ my real reason of doing this is because there are a lot more ignorant people than you might think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macrofinite View Post
The map obviously wasn't designed for the standard 1 top 1 mid 2 bot 1 jungle team distribution... that's just become what people do.

As has been said, the exact same disadvantage exists on the opposite side on bot, which you claim is irrelevant because there are typically 2 people laning bot. I'm not sure that's true, and I'm sure we could find many people to contest that point.

Also, you basically admit that Swain isn't viable solo top:



Maybe you can get away with it as blue, but there are reasons that certain champs are viewd as strong solo tops, and the fact that you "find the current meta game boring" doesn't really change that. Practically everything you are noting could be negated by using a champ with some form of escape, so I'm not sure on that basis you can claim that blue top is OP.
Yes, I admit Swain is currently not that viable to be solo top champ (but still can function as one), I'm not trying to say Swain is good solo champ top in this thread. You are definitely off-point here.

I'm not saying disadvantage and advantage at bot don't exist either. Simply saying, I said the impact on bottom lane, is smaller than it has on top lane.

You should know that there is no reason either to stick to current meta-game if you find working method. If you don't try new things, meta game will stay the same forever, and people would quit in probably about 1 year. The reason people stays is that meta-game is something that changes. What I'm trying to achieve with this Swain experiment is to get another possibility of tanky AP into the current meta, which would be nice if it works well == and adds variety to the current meta.


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EnterCoffee

Junior Member

04-26-2012

You can always Double top with purple. You will still outlevel enemy jungle with current xp. I have found that jungling from purple side is much less profitable. The only successfull Jungle twitch games I have are from blue side. Udyr also jungles better from blue.


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