The REAL way to play an OP Gragii...ANTI CARRY

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BuddhaKingpen

Member

04-22-2012

unfortunately for me, i've always been a hipster, so i need to be different. when ppl thought that all that he was was a tank, then i noticed his excellent ratios and played him ap. when shushei played him at dreamhack and everyone hopped on the ap gragas bandwagon,

I actually got better at playing tank gragas, then realized how much aoe comps destroyed him. galio, katarina, and kennen ults are hard to time ur ult against all three unless they burn them all at once...in which case your team was already dead. so i figured i needed more damage to compensate for his lack of hard cc..a tank needs to either be hard to kill with a lot of cc(galio,leona,alistar), or hard to kill with a lot of damage(galio,amumu,malphite), right?

I then began to notice, gragas, unlike most champs, can sustain in lane forever, with just a philosopher stone. seeing as with a tank gragas, u need 40 percent cooldowns to maintain a consistent slow on people, i just got used to getting frozen heart combined with shurelyas reverie. my usual tank build was as follows

frozen heart
warmogs
frozen mallet
force of nature
merc treads
shurelyas reverie

the problem with this build i began to notice is that while yes...i was a brick wall that kept the whole team slowed through auto attacks and body slams (kinda a mini sejuani with a much better laning phase and a different ult) sometimes a solo queue team just isnt smart enough to actually kite, and assume that since ur the tank, you should be locking down one person, so they stand in one spot and get rolled while i'm the last one alive.

THEN IT HIT ME... I NEED BURST!!... i was a fan of ap gragas, but didnt really think that was his full potential. early game u rely on his bases for heavy damage. thats fine. whether ap or tank, ur relying on his bases and maybe some magic pen early on, so u WILL have the burst. mid to late game if ur not ap, ur damage decreases dramatically. but i fell so in love with being unkillable that i truly didnt want to go back to ap gragas. even tho that is fun as well.

I found out this way overused and overpowered item...its called trinity force! i know i know "I'm sick of all these trinity force *****s!" but honestly...its just too good not to use with my build in the place of frozen mallet.

i play a lot of champs like malphite, poppy and jarvan, where there job is to easily get in and shut down the carry and just walk away almost unscratched. i wanted to play gragas the same way. AND ITS GODLIKE.

The way i do it in a teamfight is multiple ways
1. stand back and poke until u hit the ad carry with a q. then ult the entire team, shurelyas activate for your team, and bodyslam the carry to slow them. frozen heart + your q debuff is a 60% attack speed slow...60%!!!!!! so they cant even hit u back while u use your trinity procs. if your team decides to be smart, they will shut down the ap carry while the team is scattered and seperated.

2. literally walk through the enemy team, toss a q on an ad carry, and wail on it. this forces the enemy team to do either two things, waste their cc and skills on you...which you wont die from since ur so tanky with items and ur w, or ignore you and let you kill the carry to get the rest of your team... but you havent ulted yet! so just kill the carry, then ult their team to reset the fight for a 4v5! maybe if u toss the barrel well enough u can get the ap carry close enough to ur team to be focused out as well.... taking out the two primary damage dealers.

so there it is. anticarry gragas. it might not sound like much, but with your w up, u have 220 ad, plus 4 second cooldowns on your barrel and body slam, plus sheen proc and crit and slow from trinity...plus the attack speed debuff from frozen heart and q (this combo of frozen heart and q alone basically means that those carries wasted their gold on their phantom dancer)

you have a three second aoe slow every 4 seconds with max build, a 25 percent chance for a slow with trinity, extreme mobility from your body slam force of nature, and trinity (dont forget a wallhack every 4 seconds)...this essentially makes u the most mobile champ in the game....even kassadin has a 7 second cd on his ult, and he doesnt itemize for movespeed either. ahri has three flashes, but after her ult is up thats done with...maybe blitz...but no wallhax...looking at the roster....the only champs that MIGHT be as mobile are tryndamere and an ad offtank nidalee..

try it! tell me what u think.

i know this is an pretty standard jarvan build, but it all synergizes so well with gragas a lot better. jarvan has to use his entire kit to get a mobile aoe slow...gragas has it in one move. be realistic, jarvan only gets off one, maybe two knockups in a teamfight, so gragas's hard cc being attached to his ult is no biggy in comparison... and jarvan has no attack speed debuff or natural lane sustain... think malphite with better cc and more damage to the team as a whole.

build is 9/21/0 (spec into mpen)
spellvamp quints,mpen reds, armor yellows, mres blues mixed with some ap per level (I use my ap carry page. kinda ip poor to customize a page for gragas, but i havent lost a lane with this yet)

trinity force
warmogs
frozen heart
shurelyas reverie
force of nature
merc treads

i'd appreciate feedback. constructive please


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Powerstoned

Member

04-22-2012

I've only played an AD Triforce Gragas for the last year. I really like him. Play him alot lot poppy, but he's alot more fun.

armpen marks! Philo, Berzerkers, Triforce, is the core.

99% of everyone hates you in game, and during champion select. People have a misconception that by 20minutes in, AP gragas is some unholy AP nuker when in fact he's not until well past 35+minutes or stupidly fed. His barrel roll sucks as your main source of damage unless you stack silly amounts of ap.


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BuddhaKingpen

Member

04-23-2012

i actually run a kill lane down bot with support poppy and ap gragas. me and my friend call it "bottom lane linebackers" poppy has cv, hits the bush, tackles the support into the wall, gragas comes in and tackles the support for a slow after the stun, then he q's her and we just wail on it with our enhanced damage lol. its pretty **** funny that we consistenly beat meta teams with it.


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StyrTW

Senior Member

04-23-2012

Tank gragas just isn't the same since they nerfed his W, removed Locket, and gutted Visage.


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Malpractice

Member

04-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerstoned View Post
I've only played an AD Triforce Gragas for the last year. I really like him. Play him alot lot poppy, but he's alot more fun.

armpen marks! Philo, Berzerkers, Triforce, is the core.

99% of everyone hates you in game, and during champion select. People have a misconception that by 20minutes in, AP gragas is some unholy AP nuker when in fact he's not until well past 35+minutes or stupidly fed. His barrel roll sucks as your main source of damage unless you stack silly amounts of ap.

Actually, Gragas isn't "some unholy AP nuker". He doesn't really have super amazing burst considering one if his spells requires you to be right next to them to hit them with it. He has godly aoe poke though. His q is a large aoe with a .9 ap ratio and 285 or so base damage at max lvl. That is a ton of aoe damage. It also has a range of 900, that is a HUGE range. The only champion I can think of that compares to Gragas in aoe burst is AP Sion with Death's Caress (his shield) which at max lvl does 300 base damage with .9 AP ratio however it requires you to be pretty much in the middle of the opposing team to hit multiple ones of them.

Also by the twenty minute mark I'm generally putting out about ~ 390 (if i'm doing bad) to 550 damage with my qs. So frankly I don't get where you aren't able to put out a ton of damage at the twenty minute mark unless you just got completely shut down.


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Napoleone

Member

04-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malpractice View Post
Actually, Gragas isn't "some unholy AP nuker". He doesn't really have super amazing burst considering one if his spells requires you to be right next to them to hit them with it. He has godly aoe poke though. His q is a large aoe with a .9 ap ratio and 285 or so base damage at max lvl. That is a ton of aoe damage. It also has a range of 900, that is a HUGE range. The only champion I can think of that compares to Gragas in aoe burst is AP Sion with Death's Caress (his shield) which at max lvl does 300 base damage with .9 AP ratio however it requires you to be pretty much in the middle of the opposing team to hit multiple ones of them.

Also by the twenty minute mark I'm generally putting out about ~ 390 (if i'm doing bad) to 550 damage with my qs. So frankly I don't get where you aren't able to put out a ton of damage at the twenty minute mark unless you just got completely shut down.
read what was said a little more closely.


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superpenguinx

Member

04-23-2012

Firstly, Gragas is built AP only.

Gragas charge is very secondary.. it's useful for mobility, mostly to get away, or chase.. E-Q, or E-R.. If there's a committed group fight and your Q/R cooldowns arn't up, you might aswell E into someone.

Problem with AP gragas is once you E into someone, and you drop your Q/R.. you havn't really got much. You need to be fully AP stacked to really do good damage, which leaves you weak and squishy in melee range.

Fortunatly, if your team is good.. engagements are worthwhile and you don't get targetted or don't need to E in much, so you can whittle them down nicely with Q and R's.. with a full build, you can 1/2 damage AD carrys and AP's with a single Q or R.. and your R is up every 40 seconds.

Recently went up against a team of 4 squishes, and it was a joke at full build. R is just too effective, and even if it doesn't kill, 60% of the time it displaces the enemy and your team mops up the scraps.

I recommend build like this

full AP runes/quints for 59 or whatever it is bonus AP at the start
21/0/9
teleport/flash

Dorans x2 (going back for the second ring soon as you have the gold.. so use those high cooldown initial Q's carefully)
Sorc boots
Fiendish Codex -> Morellos (rushing your Morellos makes life much better as your Q can fire lots more)
Rabadons
Void staff
Ryjals
Zhonyas

* Don't be afraid to drop your R for a large farm pack.. it's gorgeous way to get a heap of gold fast
* Use your E for utility, Gragas can charge through many small walls with it.. there's a video around showing which ones. Use your E in early-mid game to soften a pack of 3 minions, and then finish them with a Q
* If you're planning an R, try and Q them first, nothing more zesty than a Q->R combo
* Q is awesome when you're pushing towers.. the enemy will be sitting on the tower, but you can make them too scared to come forward by putting a barrel right next to the tower. You can position your Q really well and leave it fizzing to give your AD carry lots of time to shoot the tower.
* Q and R both go through/over walls really well.. there's lots of times you can use this so look for them and your barrel will come from nowhere.
* Use your R alot, at level 18 with this build it will be up every 40 seconds.. even if it isn't going to kill, it'll do alot of damage.

With Gragas, there's lots of characters that are worthwhile going for.. and then there's some you just shouldn't bother with (eg Mundo / Tanks..) Just kill the squishies and avoid the rest.

You will very much enjoy your first R onto a full group, when half of them are squishies.

A single R which is basically un-avoidable can take half of the entire teams health away.. splattering them in all directions.