[Character Discussion] Ashe, the Unstoppable Killing Machine

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bloodba7h

Senior Member

10-26-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by h4rdcor3 View Post
Lately I've been going with a meki pendant and 2 health pots when I solo. The pendant keeps you with lots of mana regen for your volley harass and the 2 pots will keep you alive. The meki pendant will usually get built into a Chalice for the little extra regen and the nice MR. My other common choice is boots and 3 health pots.

With a partner depends on what they can do for me.

Haven't played 3v3 but i'd assume my volley spam would be even more important.
This.

Meki + 2 heal pots -> Chalice

Volley spam is just way too ****ing strong not to take full advantage of. AoE slow is amazingly useful at all times of the game and not having enough mana to fire your Enchanted Crystal Arrow sucks. Chalice makes you incredibly useful.

(I used to go philostone but cutting that item is cutting the fat and making an incredibly efficient build. By all means go philostone if you feel you can't survive in the early game without some hp regen, though.. still a decent choice.)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jazriel

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Recruiter

10-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodba7h View Post
This.

Meki + 2 heal pots -> Chalice

Volley spam is just way too ****ing strong not to take full advantage of. AoE slow is amazingly useful at all times of the game and not having enough mana to fire your Enchanted Crystal Arrow sucks. Chalice makes you incredibly useful.

(I used to go philostone but cutting that item is cutting the fat and making an incredibly efficient build. By all means go philostone if you feel you can't survive in the early game without some hp regen, though.. still a decent choice.)

Having tested Maki + pots -> Chalice, I would say that it is garbage. Chalice is too much mana regen early game and I don't understand how you "spam" volley. Last hitting creeps is more beneficial than simply doing AoE damage. Harassing heroes doesn't do much because everyone seems to be running Heal or they'll have some form of regen.

I got nowhere with Chalice compared to going for straight damage (Phage after Philo Stone and Boots) or my favourite build, PB and Razor.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

VoxDissident

The Council

10-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazriel View Post
Having tested Maki + pots -> Chalice, I would say that it is garbage. Chalice is too much mana regen early game and I don't understand how you "spam" volley. Last hitting creeps is more beneficial than simply doing AoE damage. Harassing heroes doesn't do much because everyone seems to be running Heal or they'll have some form of regen.
Yep. This is more or less true. I disagree with you when you say harassing "doesn't do much", but I agree that Chalice is unnecessary unless you're in desperate need of early magic resistance. I play Ashe at a competitive level (we were undefeated in the League of Legends 2009 tourney until the tournament went defunct after the level reset), and I would say meki + 2 pots gives you less longevity in lane than a simple regrowth pendant. I also went 3 - 0 early game in lane against Reginald during the very first time I scrimmed against him, back when I had no idea who he was (we lost the game, but that was because Pendragon was basically backdooring all our towers with Yi).

My advice, if you're willing to listen:

You should plan to stay in lane until you hit level 6. Two assumptions that are fair:

1) You are in mid lane solo
2) You are up against another solo, who is likely ranged, or a nuker.

Up till you hit level 6, you should be last hitting and harassing the enemy player. You should have sufficient mana, with just a regrowth pendant, to hold your ground even against another Ashe who has meki + 2 pots. If you harass correctly, he should be out of pots and 1/2 life or less by the time you hit 6, if you haven't already gotten first blood on her.

You should blue pill back to town, and then you grab philo stone and boots, Crystal arrow to a good approximation of where the enemy solo will be in 4 seconds, and then teleport back into lane on the back row of your creeps. You should get a second kill if your enemy has been running meki pendant + 2 pots and he hasn't already ported back to town yet.

I used to run with Razor and Plentiful bounty early game. This is reasonably effective during mid or low level pub games, because you don't typically run into a lot of combat early game. However, I eventually started skipping razor, and starting with frost arrow and going:

1 - Frost arrow
2 - Volley
3 - Volley
4 - Frost arrow
5 - Volley
6 - Crystal arrow

This will help you get a very early first blood if your team helps you get red rune, since frost arrow and red rune stack (almost guaranteed first blood if one person stays with you to level 1 gank as your team separates out into lanes). First blood will net you far more gold between level 1 and 6 than plentiful bounty. This is also important because you won't be very effective early game if you focus too much on plentiful bounty. Ashe supremacy lies in mid to late game, usually, but you also want to make sure you keep the enemy solo ganked, keep him down and harassed, as well as ganking other lanes whenever the opportunity presents itself. This alone will virtually guarantee a victory in the long run, assuming your team does well as you transition between mid and late game playstyles.

Razor is *ok* for long running pub games, especially since you can eventually upgrade it to Bloodrazor at late late game, giving you even more of an edge over tanks / tankier players. However, you will find that you farm almost just as quickly if you learn to last hit reliably. You should still be able to farm between 150-180 lane creep kills by 40 minutes into the game, even without Razor. If you can't do this without Razor, you're using Razor as a crutch, and it isn't helping you become a better player. Razor is primarily best for people who jungle early game, people who solo dragon at level 5 - 6. Ashe should be doing neither. Additionally, in terms of cost - benefit, taking into account the fact that Ashe is VERY easy to kill, you should instead be getting phage and infinity edge earlier, grabbing a last whisper and/or black cleaver, and a phantom dancer to round things out. Somewhere in there, it is a good idea to upgrade to Frost Mallet.

Why? "She already has frost arrow, isn't that redundant???"

No.

Frost mallet stacks with frost arrow, and it also stacks with red rune, which your team should be letting you get. All 3 in combination essentially make it impossible for your target to move faster than a crawl. This means the enemy team has no other alternative than to attempt to focus fire Ashe down (if they ever realize this fact). Also, the additional life you get from Frost Mallet will prevent Ashe from being an obvious focus target. You *need need need neeeeed* this. Ideally, everyone on your team should have a minimum of 2500 life by level 18. You need to remove the chance of someone becoming the focus target *****. Even while being focused moderately, Ashe needs to be able to see through 2 or 3 kills before she goes down during a pitched 5v5 teamfight. And believe me, she *will* go down, invariably, against a good team.

Basically, overall, even in a pub, you typically want to build to achieve the following:
- Keep Ashe effective early game, even without gear
- Get Ashe first blood, or at least get 2+ kills on your laning opponent by the time you hit level 6.
- Increase Ashe's overall survivability, subject to the enemy team composition and playstyle
- Strive for at least over 200 attack power by level 18. Mid 200's by end game is fine. If you get ~300 or more, then this is evidence that either your opponents are playing very poorly (which happens in pub games), or that you are sacrificing too much survivability / crit / armor pen just to see a big number on your stats screen. A competent opponent will crush any Ashe that is built this way.
- Be an effective late game carry against the specific enemy team comp. During each 5v5 team fight, If your team is well rounded, you should not be dying before you can essentially ensure that you team will win that fight.

Items that I believe are *key* for Ashe:
- Banshees veil and/or Frost Mallet for survivability.
- Infinity edge, yes yes yes always
- Last Whisper, yes yes yes always
- Regrowth pendant > meki pendant + 2 red potions


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jazriel

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Recruiter

10-28-2009

I love you. That is exactly the type of legitimate and insightful feedback I was looking for when I started this thread.

In all of my testing I'm finalizing my Ashe build to be something like this:

Pendant
Boots
Philo Stone
Phage
Boots of Swiftness
Last Whisper/Frozen Mallet
Frozen Mallet/Last Whisper

Frost Arrow
Volley
Volley
Frost Arrow
etc

Finish the item build with Veil or get Veil instead of Mallet based on team matchup.


And what's the "red rune?" Is that Lizard buff?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

VoxDissident

The Council

10-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazriel View Post
And what's the "red rune?" Is that Lizard buff?
Yep. Red rune = Lizard buff.

Blue rune = golem buff.

I luv you too


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jazriel

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Recruiter

10-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxDissident View Post
Yep. Red rune = Lizard buff.

Blue rune = golem buff.

I luv you too
*Gasp* I forgot like my favourite item on Ashe, The Brutalizer. Everything Ashe needs in one cheap 1400 package.

The build I end (and win) with looks like this:

Boots of Swiftness
Philosopher Stone
Frozen Mallet
Last Whisper
The Brutalizer

In a game where Banshee's Veil is needed early game I get it after Stone and before BoS and late game I get BoS last, Whisper, Veil, then Mallet.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HowlingKommando

Senior Member

10-28-2009

Good post Vox, probably one of the best Ashe guides I've read.

I find Regrowth starter is a must as Ashe.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EmptyApartment

Senior Member

10-29-2009

Great post Vox, lots of good info for me to read thanks

what are anyones thoughts on masteries as far as a main ashe player goes? I have a bunch of points but not too sure where i should put them, thought this would be a good place to ask


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bloodba7h

Senior Member

10-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazriel View Post
Having tested Maki + pots -> Chalice, I would say that it is garbage. Chalice is too much mana regen early game and I don't understand how you "spam" volley. Last hitting creeps is more beneficial than simply doing AoE damage. Harassing heroes doesn't do much because everyone seems to be running Heal or they'll have some form of regen.

I got nowhere with Chalice compared to going for straight damage (Phage after Philo Stone and Boots) or my favourite build, PB and Razor.
How do you have too much mana as Ashe? Volley is an absolutely amazing skill to harass and make the enemy solo taste the fear with. It's also very good to push and last hit with. You should never have full mana as Ashe in my opinion.

Another lesser-known strategy involving Volley spam harassment and Ashe's passive that gives her critical% as long as she isn't auto-attacking. The high mana regen of Chalice ensures that you can spam Volley whenever it's up so that you're still relevant to the lane you're in, while building your critical% to cap.

Once you hit the critical hit% cap -> turn on Frost Shot while running towards the target -> critical hit -> retreat if they're still too strong, or keep the pressure on if you think you can get away with it.

Philosopher's Stone isn't a waste of money, but you can achieve more with more mana, more magic resist, and no HP-regen for nearly the same cost. Philostone doesn't pay for itself in nearly enough time for my liking (and this is all preference, obviously). Philosopher's Stone, like I've said before, is a decent choice for Ashe but not necessary.

@ VoxDissident: That guide is absolutely amazing, and you've given me something to think about in regards to Frozen Mallet. Very interesting strategy involving the Enchanted Crystal Arrow from the fountain.. I'm too timid to try things like that for the most part, though. Thank you for the guide!

I'm going to be trying this for the next few games I have as Ashe:
Meki + 2 HP Potions
Chalice
Berzerker's
Phage
Build Infinity Edge
Frozen Mallet / Last Whisper
Last Whisper / Frozen Mallet
Banshee's Veil / <whatever item as needed>


12