Owning with Kog Maw

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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

04-17-2012

A quick guide on using Kog in Dominion in honor of the rotation.

Due to Kog's 6% onhit effect, attack speed works very very well with Kog, and onhit items are quite efficient. This made Attack Speed/onhit Kog quite popular and powerful. BUT, the meta shifted and Kog wound up bottom as a carry with a healer support. This plus new masteries encouraged AD which is much better early game laning.

In Dominion you don't have the early laning phase so AS/Onhit makes a resurgance.

So, I would recommend that Kog players try out AS/onhit in dominion because it allows for the fastest DPS increase per gold, while also increasing defense and utility. It does NOT have the lifesteal potential of most builds (who deal 2/3rds physical, 1/3rd magical), as we deal mostly magical damage.
The good news is that it is harder to resist magical damage since the items for doing so generally aren't as good or popular as the armor ones.
A pure AD/AS/crit build will not catch up DPSwise until 10,000 or so gold which is at the very end of the game which almost never matters in dominion.


2-21-7 masteries. Onhit doesn't really benefit strongly from Offense which is AD or AP based. Defense makes you a lot tougher, offers 3% movespeed, while utility gives 10% faster rez and another 1.5% MS. The 2 offense is for AD, though you could move it to util.

I go ghost/exhaust. You can take either Bottom or Top. Kog is best when you have several bruisers on your team to tank for you.

Build:
Zerker Boots and antimagic mantle, and 1 health pot to start.
This gives you good movespeed and high AS. Put 1 in each skill. Dont forget to use your SPITTLE at the top fight on whoever is focused. Its probably the only time you will ever do so. Its mostly for the passive AS boost.

Upgrade to Wits End - One of the most efficient onHit items around. Magic resistance gives you significant anti-burst and ensures you win fights vs AP. For 2150g, you are getting 1000g of AS, 1600ish AD and 500-800 magic resist.

Ionic Spark - boosts health, more onhit damage, more AS. Particularly nice if you are bottom for bonus pushing. Not as efficient but still pretty good.

(from here it gets situational)

Phage - more health, Snare. While not a reliable snare, it is still pretty helpful. Efficient item too.

Recurve Bow first. Upgrade to Kitai's bloodrazor eventually. I usualy don't get to this as I want the Mallet instead but the recurve will get you close to 2.3 AS.

Upgrade to Frozen Mallet as needed. It is SO GOOD as it makes you quite hard to kill, and the snare at 700+ range is godly vs most foes.



Tips:

1) Kog is a very strong Top solo defender. Hide in the top bushes. When enemy caps, you Ult them. They will then come top to engage you. Use PUKE CARPET to greatly slow their approach while you use Barrage and shred them. You will usually totally destroy the enemy before they can even get to you. If they are melee with gapcloser, you still almost always win the straight up fight. use exhaust as needed of course.
This works even 1v2 as you take out 1 foe entirely and delay the other one quite a bit.
Vs 3, you get some delay but you are unlikely to get a kill due to CC.
In any case, Kog can defend top node better than a large majority of other champs.

2) Use your Ult liberally to avoid facechecking bushes. Ult lights up any foe hit for a few seconds... you don't have to listen for a thunk like Olaf or Mundo, etc.

3) Ult is extremely strong at level 11/16 for stopping enemy caps. A kog that sits in the mid area hidden can stop just about any cap on your 3 nodes. Great if you have annoying stealth or speed guys that insist on ninja-ing all the time.

4) Don't be afraid of enemy melee. You have no escape mechanism so dont try to outrun them. It just won't happen. You can't kite until you have Mallet anyways and even that doesnt work vs most. Instead, SHRED them. Roll out the puke carpet vs incoming champs to slow them while you hit them from 700+ range. You will get in several hits before they can Gapclose you.
You then Exhaust, Spittle if you remember and take em out.

5) Should be obvious but dont' rush in alone. You will get off 1 attack then get GapClosed and CCed and killed. Stay behind your bruisers! Focus who THEY focus!


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Nilat

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04-17-2012

Awesome guide sir, much appreciated. I've played alot of Kog in the past but stopped using him as much because in blind pick I always get sent bot, which I don't do very well with. Anyway, I am curious as to why you wouldn't want Malady in an AS/on-hit build?


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FDru

Senior Member

04-17-2012

Malady is the poor man's Kitae's. That said, in Dominion you want cheaper items that are more gold efficient so Malady should always be bought for on-hit builds.

Phage/Mallet are not situational. They are core.


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Panwar

Senior Member

04-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
Phage/Mallet are not situational. They are core.
Yah it's the Mallet that really pushes Kog over the top.

Without Mallet he's just another champ that does a lot of damage.

With the Mallet he's a champ that does a lot of damage that you can't get to, or run away from.


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Warrrrax

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04-17-2012

Malady costs 1900g. It gives you 1250g of attack speed which is very nice. The 20 onhit is worth about 800 of "AD". The magic resist shred is worth maybe 300ish as very few can really survive that many autoattacks anyways. The AP is practically worthless. You just can't hit the magical 50 AP needed to squeeze out another 1% to your barrage. Its not that useful to your Ult or your Puke even.

Its not a bad item, but its not amazingly efficient nor giving me stats that I really want. 1900g for 2300ish stats.

Compared to wits end which is 3300ish gold for 2150 price.
Even Ionic gives you a good 3000g worth for its 2300g price, including some extra pushing/multihit power.

So, you could take it if you wanted without seeing an appreciable difference most likely. I just choose the other 2 onhit AS boosters instead, then the recurve part of bloodrazor.

The bloodrazor itself costs 2725g and gives 1200g of real AD, 1000g of AS, and vs an average 2k foe, 50 "AD" worth 2000g = 4200ish gold of stats.
Its very efficient as a lategame item.

Phage/Mallet are both really nice items. Not sure I would call them core exactly, but this basically just wordplay and I get phage just about every game. So thats a fair assessment. But Mallet is VERY expensive and you need to be able to DELIVER THE TINGZ FIRST! If you can't deliver deeps then being a carry is kind of pointless. And mallet is quite inefficient costing 800ish gold for the snare. The phage snare is basically "free" as the AD/health break even for the gold.

---------
So why is hiding up top a good strat? Can't any ole champ defend a node 1v1?

Ill clarify. Normally they see a node with 1 defender. They will get together a group of 2+ and go in, or fight elsewhere.
BUT if you hide, the node appears undefended. Its most likely no group will form. 1 guy will most likely go all the way to the top and try to cap. They get ulted.
They can...
a) Leave after wasting a trip top and back.
b) Attack you and almost certainly die with your positional advantage. You will blow up on them and tie even if they are more fed than you.
c) wait for backup, wasting more time.
You also get to defend a node while healing up from nearby health packet spawn, instead of the usual "lets all take top then all go B immediately!"

When 2 or more attack, they will
a) both come from same direction. You will move away from them in bushes, Puke and Ult and run into your tower. You can snipe at them with Ult at your leisure.
b) come from both directions. Move closer to closest one or weakest, puke carpet, barrage, own them. Then hopefully get away from the 2nd one and run into tower. You usually can at least trade 1 for 1 and delay their cap quite a bit.

When 3+ come... yeah you get owned. But you will delay their capping more than most champs could.


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Northpaw

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04-17-2012

In my opinion, building Kog like a normal carry is better at all points of the game. I suppose there might exist an exception if there's already too much AD on the team, but for the purposes of this post I'll assume not.

Anyway, one of the reasons is that his W on hit already does substantial damage and will scale by itself later into the game as enemies get more HP. Another is that an on-hit build can be pretty easily itemized against just by getting some MR. Malady has its place early but is underwhelming later, and unless the build includes a Void Staff, which doesn't fit into an ordinary on-hit build, his damage will suffer later.

AD Kog can quite naturally build a Last Whisper because it makes sense in an ordinary AD build. This way, the primary source of defense itemization by enemies is heavily reduced without having to build an unusual item, and the on-hit effect shouldn't suffer for their building armor. Basically, his AD isn't that great by itself with an on-hit build, so enemies won't need to itemize armor against it if they just build MR, but his W on-hit with an AD build is still going to hurt quite a bit. AD Kog will of course get attack speed as well in the form of a Phantom Dancer, which also gives him crit chance and perhaps more importantly, a lot of movement speed.

Also, on-hit Kog doesn't get much scaling damage on his ult. Maybe just a tiny bit from the AP from Malady. This is a lesser point compared to the others, but still worth considering.

My explanation may have been a bit scatter-brained, but I hope it made sense.


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Aparkhurst

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04-17-2012

I was hoping nobody would discover how utterly broken Kog'maw is. His damage output is disgusting!


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Northpaw

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04-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparkhurst View Post
I was hoping nobody would discover how utterly broken Kog'maw is. His damage output is disgusting!
His strengths really shine when he's not counter-picked very well, but he can definitely be counter-picked.


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Aparkhurst

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04-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northpaw View Post
His strengths really shine when he's not counter-picked very well, but he can definitely be counter-picked.
In solo queue, yeah. But in an organized team environment, Kog'maw is not easy to shut down.


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Warrrrax

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04-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northpaw View Post
. Another is that an on-hit build can be pretty easily itemized against just by getting some MR.
On dominion, how much magic resistance do you really tend to see? I don't see much at all past MR/lvl blues and maybe a hexdrinker or wits end.

I DO tend to see a lot more thornmails (for which theres no antimagic equivalent), and frozen heart (very efficient).
I also tend to see more AD than magical damage, so most teams tend to itemize against physical moreso.
It is also no great stretch to say that armor items are better than anti-magic for the most part.


Last Whisper doesn't magically make all their armor go away for free. It costs 800 gold for the 40% penetration, which stacks multiplicatively with the 10% mastery and 10% aura that already exist.

I will admit that getting LW is a lot more natural than grabbing a Void Staff on Kog (or even a haunted guise for flat pen). I also admit that AD works better with lifesteal.

But onHit just ramps up a heck of a lot faster. This is quite important because it means Kog can flat out beat an enemy AD carry in a toe to toe for most of the game. He can even beat melees in most cases.

Endgame isn't as important in dominion either so the superfed AD doesnt significantly outshadow the onHit kog. Neither really finish their builds.


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