Alistar support build?

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MeltedWater

Senior Member

02-24-2014

I just recently came back to League of Legends after a long hiatus. I'm playing with a friend that is new, so I made a smurf account and we don't do draft, mostly because the queues for it are too long...so we're doing blinds, and I play Alistar a lot, while he plays Ashe.

Before i quit, supports were much different. These new gold-generating items are new to me. I tried out the coin thingy, the replacement of Philosopher's Stone and Shureyla's Reverie I guess it is, but I just don't like it that much. It gives a ton of mana regen but it's STILL not enough for me so I use Chalice of Harmony anyway. I've never much cared for the speed boost from Shurelya's Reverie, just as I don't care much for Ghost either (and soon I won't have to use it anymore as I'll have Flash).

But Frost Queen's Claim seems rather awesome. I love the extra slow ability, then plus I also have my Exhaust and Randuin's Omen. Three slows. I also seem to get a lot more gold when I pick up that starting item, and the extra AP is useful for the slightly extra damage in early exchanges.

But maybe too much gold...in a recent game, I went 7/4/36. I only had 59 minion kills and got 18.8k gold. I got my complete build early and didn't know what to do.

Here's what I had:

1. Frost Queen's Claim. This is a pretty solid item that I like.

2. Randuin's Omen. Also a solid item that I like.

3. Spirit Visage. Seems to be the best resist item and to give me just overall better survivability and sustain.

4. I built a Mikhael's Crucible first, but I didn't really use the active to much effect often, so I sold it for an Athene's Unholy Grail for more damage.

5. Frozen Heart. This item is pushing it. I don't know if I needed the extra armor, and I certainly didn't need the mana. I did have a Sightstone, but wasn't using wards all that often and figured it'd be useful to sell it to get something to slow down the enemy Master Yi and Teemo's attack speed. I figured that'd help my team more than a Sightstone or a Locket of the Iron Solari. Maybe if someone else on my team got FH I'd get Locket, or if someone got both I'd get Sightstone. But yeah.

6. Boots of Lucidity. I think they're a solid choice now, but I hear they're getting nerfed. Should I keep getting them or get something else instead? I know people are all about Boots of Mobility, but my friend gets kinda grumpy when I leave him to go help out another lane and then he dies. O.o But also I could get Boots of Swiftness, and I think that'd be enough to Headbutt someone, and catch up to Pulverize them afterward. The combo is too hard for me to pull off, and risky if I don't since I waste Pulverize. What upgrades should I get on them? I usually get Alacrity, but I know most people like Homeguard. What about the team captain one?

7. And for the trinket, I've been getting the ward one. I think if I had Ruby Sightstone though I wouldn't need it. Maybe I could get the ward one early, and switch it out for the sweeping lens thingy later. But I see a lot of junglers starting to get that, and when I seem to use it it's usually waste or like...what's the point anyway?

Please note that MOST games I'm not so fed, and fill up a slot with Sightstone nearly the whole game; an item that I get early. Only when I'm very fed (apaprently), late game, when wards are less important because everyone is just sticking together and team fighting anyway, do I ever sell it for something else, like FH. And I do get Locket of the Iron Solari often I just feel Frozen Heart is probably sometimes better for just the protection itself in all honesty.

Any thoughts about what items I should or shouldn't get, and why? Any mentality I should change because I'm doing it wrong?


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MeltedWater

Senior Member

02-25-2014

Anybody at all can help me?


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WhiteSnowApple

Junior Member

02-25-2014

not sure where to begin :P lets start from the basic then.

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The role of support: vision -> assist your adc cs(in laning phase) --> initiate or disengage a team fight --> peel for carry

how important is the vision? People are probably annoy to hear how important is the vision again and again, so i am not bother say how important is it.
Just go watch some lcs game or simply spectate some rank games at homepage of our client.

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What item you want to build on support?

Before answer this question, you need to what kinda of quality does a champion need to be a good support.
The champion need to have hard or aoe CC and Buff(ex, heal, revive, spellshield, lantern, and etc...).
In this case, alistar is a good support since he have one target cc(headbutt), a aoe cc(polarize) and a heal.


A average game last about 30- 35 mins, As support u will probably only be able to have about 8-9k per game.(unless you are ks a lot.....)

(about 0.6k) Consumable cost. For god sake, buy and use pink ward when u r playing support

(0.5k) Doran shield. You gonna start this item. Otherwise you will have a hard time sustain your lane, specially if u r melee

(0.5k) oracle Len. It is the only item you can clear enemy ward repeatedly.

(1k)Sightsotne is a must. Dont need to upgrade rubystone till you max item, but be smart where u put ur wards

(1K) Shoe and upgrade. the most common for support is mobility boots, since you only going to be effective if YOU ARE THERE!!! CDR shoe is popular for the support have long cd for their cc(over 15s). Ninja Tabi(for enemy have most ad dmg source) and Mercury's Treads (for enemy have most magic dmg source and multiple cc) are good on dive support. Personally, i will build CDR shoe on Alistar due to his long CD on his skills and his ult works like Ninja and Mercury's Treads. When you need mobility, just pop ur talisman.

(2K)Talisman. Why Talisman? you may argue the Frost Queen's Claim can do the same thing. But Frost Queen is a single target aoe spell. In average, u r only going to slow down 2 enemy. Compare to Talisman, u usually can give 4 of ur ally speed buff.
OR
(2K)Face of mountain. It is a rlly specialize item that request a team have strategy for it.


There is 5k gone for the necessary item for support and there is only a bout 3k left. Now is the luxury of S4 support.
What you build with these 3 k is totally situational or person prefers, but I will list out what i usually build and the reason behind it.

Frist tier Choice
RoA, Build this item when enemy is mostly ad dmg and the aoe active is good for engage, disengage, reengage and peel
Lorki, It is a great item for against high magic dmg source enemy and the active shell can often save ur ally got instant burst enemy mage assassin.
Frozen Heart, Personally i rarely build it. It is good against mostly or only ad dmg and later-game hyper carry, since it only increase ur armor not with the health.

Second tier Choice(selfish item)
Why isn't best to build a selfish item first? Since you r playing support which basically have not much dmg, enemy shouldn't target u as porirty in team fight, unless you can be instant burst even before the team fight. Then it is the point you should build some selfish item

Thornmail. when enemy only have ad dmg source or overwhelming ad dmg (like rlly fed jinx or draven).
Spirit. against mostly magic dmg.


Why most of the supports dont build dmg item?
Dmg items are multiplier. They are only going to effective after you build 2 (for AP) or 3 (for ad) big item.


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MeltedWater

Senior Member

02-27-2014

I disagree with you on several things, I'll just go through your list one at a time.

I'm not saying vision isn't important. I stressed it a LOT that it's very important for the entirety of almost every game, and for even most of the game in games it's not at the end. Even when I was in mid-Silver elo, there will be games where it's simply 1 team defending base and the other team trying to push for the win at the end. THESE are the games where you HAVE enough gold to sell the Sightstone and buy another item. This is the only time I will. In games like this, noone is even in the jungle on one team so there is no reason for either team to ward anything but baron. This only happens in long, close games where virtually everyone on both teams is fed by this point, and it's very important what I build.

As I said before, I haven't played much since S4 changes. Before I quit, I'd get lots of pink wards and try to have vision control in bot lane in the early stages. But now, you can only buy 2 at a time and they are visible to the enemy team. It MIGHT kill 1 ward before it dies, but it's not worth defending. It's really just not, from my experience. It seems like a waste of a gold, and a waste of an item slot in mid-game for sure, even early game.

What I've been doing instead of getting Pink Wards is starting with the warding trinket, then when I get a Ruby Sightstone, switching out the ward trinket for the sweeper trinket. OR, if there is a strong desire to have the sweeper earlier, I'll simply get it as soon as I have the regular Sightstone. Again; I've been playing on a low level account. I might change my mind after I start seeing GOOD supports do something different from me but for now, I think it's best.

I disagree with Doran Shield being necessary at all. This might be useful on champions without heals, like Leona or Thresh, but Alistar has a heal. Isn't it best if I think of my ADC, and make sure I have mroe mana regen to heal them more often? I've been starting Spellthief's Edge + Stealth Ward + Mana Potion + Warding Totem Trinket (or whatever it's called).

There is no such thing as Oracle Lens anymore...have you even played this season?

I disagree with not upgrading Sightstone early. Now Ruby Sightstone's max stacks just so happens to synchronize perfectly with the max you can have. So it saves you a slot in your inventory, even the trinket slot, so you can get sweeper lens.

With the Mobility Boots nerf, I think Boots of Swiftness are more appealing than ever. I've been getting it on Alistar now anyway, even though Boots of Lucidity aren't getting nerfed. The thing is, they still might, but also, Frost Queen's Claim is getting a buff. FQC + AUG is alreay 30% CDR; no sense in the boots. I already get like almost 10% CDR from runes/masteries, I think. Plus Spirit Visage gives like 10% I think. Yeah...

And Alistar doesn't need Merc Treads as much as most because he's got his ult, and likewise, doesn't need Ninja Tabi because of how tanky he is.

I think FQC gives more gold overall than Talisman does, even for melee, plus the extra damage is useful (even for melee). I know this is something that most people will disagree with me on. But I've never liked Shureyla's Reverie. And I don't like this. The extra mana regen from the Talisman isn't as much anymore early, and the same late, and it doesn't matter as I get Chalice anyway. Furthermore, the extra CDR on Talisman is useless. AND the health regen is not that important because A) Alistar already has a heal, and B) the AP from FQC's chain gives makes him heal more, anyway. I think overall Talisman's chain would give more health to HIMSELF, but FQC's chain gives more HP to his allies (obviously) but the difference in both cases is negligible anyway so no sense arguing it.

I'm not sure why you suggested getting RoA, maybe you meant Rylai's? Useless item on Alistar. And I don't know what Lorki is -- LotIS? (???) I don't even think you read my post...I get that item a lot.

Frozen Heart (and Randuin's Omen, which you apparently don't like) is good against people with fast attac speed. Why get Thornmail? FH and RO helps my team, too, and doesn't make people not want to target me like Thornmail does. Thornmail is such a newb bait item. No thanks.

Hmm I'm still pretty convinced on my own build. Maybe I'm just re-convincing myself I know what I'm doing? :P Wish I could get replies from someone else...


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Madraac

Senior Member

02-27-2014

I main Ali when playing support, as in S4 I find Sona (my other preferred support) to be just too squishy overall... combined with the fact that teams often need some tankiness as well. (I just bought Leona but have not even started practicing her yet.)

For Ali, his ratios really do suck for buying any significant source of AP... his Ult gives him a huge boost to AD, which is why Ali can still be an effective support even after being repeatedly nerfed.

Your first item should be a gold based income item, plus a ward and pot... almost every single game. Any of the 3 will do, but I find for melee based champs, the Ancient Coin is the way to go, especially if you know your ADC can farm as the ancillary gold per minion death adds up quickly.

On your first back, you want to get at least boots tier 1 so you have some mobility advantage. Playing Ali in support lanes, Ninja Tabi should not be overlooked due to the 10% damage reduction. (Early laning you do not have your ult to mitigate any damage and you need to be the damage soak for your ADC.) If you decide to not go that route, there are only 2 options I suggest. If you are against a heavy CC team, look at Merc Treads for Tenacity, otherwise you are correct in going for Swiftness so you can position your headbutt more effectively.

I have mixed feelings on Ruby Sightstone... and I tend to hold off on it and just buy wards. For whatever reason I forget to use sightstones at times, but when I have green wards, I drop them like they are hot. That means every back I am getting at least 2 if not 3 wards, so I try to plan on getting an item, plus 150 gold for wards. However, my last slot typically will go to a sightstone for overall benefits.

So after your first 2 major items, you really should look at what your team is asking you to do. Ali excels at helping push down towers due to his ult. The build you want is great, but it gets rather expensive overall. I personally try to rush Aegis into Locket as my 3rd item, for the combination of Armor and MR, plus the ability to really push towers mid game due to your passive and heal... Ali with a wave of minions can take down a tower extremely quickly compared to other supports.

I like your other options and agree with them pending on how well your gold income is. Spirit Visage is ok on Ali, as your heal is rather weak, and more meant for keeping waves alive, but it does help and is very cost effective for MR and CDR. I also really like Randuin's combined with Ancient Coin... it will ensure that you can chase or escape from almost any champion or teamfight as needed, but it is costly.

Your Optional items would be:
Frozen Heart is overkill for the build you are going for, but I also get the idea. This is where if I needed more armor, or I am having trouble with AA based champs, I would opt to go to a Thornmail or Sunfire. Sunfire synergizes with your passive and helps deal damage to any melee champ. If against a heavy 3+ AP team, Abyssal Scepter is your AP option to help your AP carry, give you greater defense and provide some AP. If your team is heavy AD, with AA champs, do not overlook Zeke's Herald, as it boosts your team and provides 20% CDR which combined with Visage gives you 30% or close to the cap of 40%

Overall, I do not think you are too far off, but remember to play situational in your builds. For the trinket, I typically start the ward when gold is at a premium, then switch to the Sweeper if I know the other team is warding as they should be.

When you get more than 30 assists, you will get gold heavy typically, especially if you have pushed towers. Remember to upgrade your boots... Captain is a good upgrade since your team will typically be following you into fights and Homeguard is always a solid choice. Next upgrade your lens so you get the 10 seconds of Truesight. (Extremely important if you go up against a Teemo... is allows your team to see the shroom fields.) Finally, you should remember to buy your red and blue elixers every 3 or so minutes if you have the excess gold. Blue will max your CDR based upon the above items, and red gives you just that much more health and damage.


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WhiteSnowApple

Junior Member

02-27-2014

First of all, I am sry, I meant RoA as Randuin's Omen and Lorki as Locket. My mistake
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It is even more important to vision in the late game.
The death timer is so long. Someone got caught can easily result a free baron or inhab, or the GAME

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltedWater View Post
there will be games where it's simply 1 team defending base and the other team trying to push for the win at the end. THESE are the games where you HAVE enough gold to sell the Sightstone and buy another item. This is the only time I will. In games like this, noone is even in the jungle on one team so there is no reason for either team to ward anything but baron. This only happens in long, close games where virtually everyone on both teams is fed by this point, and it's very important what I build.
How do you know enemy support is not going to flash ult or there maybe a chance for u can land 5 man stun, if u dont have the vision by ward cross the wall.

And warding for baron isnt simply just throw one ward into the baron pit. good enemy know they need to sweep the ward around the baron pit. so you have to also ward around the baron for ensure enemy is doing baron, not just a bait.

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specially after 4.3 patch. FQC active is skill shot. There is a high chance for u miss it.
i never buy coin for its states, but only for its active. Therefore I often got the coin as the third item after sightstone and shoe

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltedWater View Post
There is no such thing as Oracle Lens anymore...have you even played this season?
I guess u never upgrade ur sweepping len
lol wiki - Oarcle Len
(I m dont sure why i cant link directly to tat page from lol wiki, if u want to see it in person. google lol wiki oarcle len)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltedWater View Post
And I don't know what Lorki is -- LotIS? (???) I don't even think you read my post...I get that item a lot.
.
I guess you didn't spend much time to read my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSnowApple View Post
What you build with these 3 k is totally situational or personal prefers, but I will list out what i usually build and the reason behind it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSnowApple View Post
his ult works like Ninja and Mercury's Treads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltedWater View Post
And Alistar doesn't need Merc Treads as much as most because he's got his ult, and likewise, doesn't need Ninja Tabi because of how tanky he is.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltedWater View Post
I might change my mind after I start seeing GOOD supports do something different from me but for now, I think it's best.
Then go watch some LCS games, or you think top 8 NA team support is not good enough for you.

Here LCS CLG pull out Alistar as support

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltedWater View Post
Wish I could get replies from someone else...
If you don't spend the time to read what ppl write in the post. none of the post will be helpful for you. And you are simply wasting other people time.