Break away from your normal builds!

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IIxeenoxII

Senior Member

04-15-2012

When necessary ffs....

If you see an enemy with high health regen (mundo, sion, ww) or any hard carry with a sanguine blade: build an executioner's calling if you are a carry yourself just sub in another high AD item for that sanguines you were going to get.

I can't recall how many times I've suggested this to stubborn AD carries to no avail :[

They have tons of AP/CC? build Merc treads. AD/AS champs? build ninja tabi. Great choices as long as it isn't detrimental to your overall build Ex: build Ionian boots on a champ with high CDs but remember to make up for the loss in defensive stats somewhere else in your build.

If you notice they have a ton of AS champs, have your tank build frozen heart and or randuins omen otherwise you build a randuins yourself. Now, if you happen to fight a yi or olaf you swap for a TM.

I have seen a lot of jax' lately and randuins has become my new favorite item. Works well, try it sometime.

Counter their armor and MR with some armor and Magic Pen. <-obvious right?

Also, if there are Stealth champs such as eve, talon, wukong, vayne, twitch, teemo. Get a lightbringer or hexsweeper respectively.

Not everyone has to get one but the person that does becomes the one in charge of targeting said stealth champs.

Build some HP no matter who you are playing. There is at least one item catered to you that increases health, get it.

Same goes for MR.

Work at getting items that synergize with your team. Ex: Abyssal sceptre if you are an in your face AP champ, WotA great item for stacking spell vamp, Zeke's Herald for ADs

You may be sacrificing some slots that otherwise would have been used for offensive items. In the long run though you will survive fights longer and ultimately deal more dmg anyway.
If you already have a well rounded/balanced build then Good Job! you are not the reason for my post...
End Rant/


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Infirc

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-16-2012

but but getting frozen mallet on Asheis such a waste, no seriously is a waste i've been trying to look for a +hp item useful on Ashe since warmogs was banned (and yes i used to run Hexdrinker+ warmogs Ashe+Sanguine Ashe


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sauron

Senior Member

04-16-2012

Force of Nature on Zilean.

You know what I speak of.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IIxeenoxII

Senior Member

04-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infirc View Post
but but getting frozen mallet on Asheis such a waste, no seriously is a waste i've been trying to look for a +hp item useful on Ashe since warmogs was banned (and yes i used to run Hexdrinker+ warmogs Ashe+Sanguine Ashe
I was thinking about Ashe as I was making my thread and there are limited ways that I can see for her to build some hp. I realize it probably isnt the best way to go but getting some hp per lvl seals should add 175hp by 18. I also mentioned how randuins was my new favorite item, I don't see why it would be a bad idea for ashe to build one or if you would rather go with a sunfire cape (albeit less useful on her) why not? She would be the anti-MS meta with randuins. Of course she still requires one to play smart.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zuljin

Junior Member

04-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIxeenoxII View Post
If you see an enemy with high health regen (mundo, sion, ww) or any hard carry with a sanguine blade: build an executioner's calling if you are a carry yourself just sub in another high AD item for that sanguines you were going to get.

I can't recall how many times I've suggested this to stubborn AD carries to no avail :[
Only tanky dps should get an executioner's calling. It's wasted stats on tanks, and the carry needs to be the carry, but which I mean they need to be doing damage. If they delay their normal build of Damage Item (Infinity Edge, Sanguine, or Black Cleaver) and PD to get that executioner's calling, you're going to be putting out much less damage in a fight than the other team's carry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIxeenoxII View Post
Build some HP no matter who you are playing. There is at least one item catered to you that increases health, get it.

Same goes for MR.
On a related note, I hate it when a carry tries to build like a tanky dps. Build to the strengths of champions. This idea that everybody should build defensively is basically a way to compensate for poor teamwork. The rest of your team should have enough cc to protect you from their assassins, carries, and tank. If your team doesn't, you picked a poor team composition. Now, they can't protect you if you're out of position, but if you're all playing smart, you don't need to build that much defense. You should only build health for the first fight (Prospector's item or ruby crystal for a quick phage) and consider buying health after 3 core items. Let a carry be a carry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIxeenoxII View Post
Also, if there are Stealth champs such as eve, talon, wukong, vayne, twitch, teemo. Get a lightbringer or hexsweeper respectively.

Not everyone has to get one but the person that does becomes the one in charge of targeting said stealth champs.
Lightbringer is usually a pretty poor item to get, mostly because it lacks crit chance. It's cost efficient, yes, but it delays your damage because that gold you spent could have been towards a PD. You want to get items that amplify your damage as you get more. Let your AP or tank get a hexsweeper if they have a stealth champion.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Panwar

Senior Member

04-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuljin View Post
Only tanky dps should get an executioner's calling. It's wasted stats on tanks, and the carry needs to be the carry, but which I mean they need to be doing damage. If they delay their normal build of Damage Item (Infinity Edge, Sanguine, or Black Cleaver) and PD to get that executioner's calling, you're going to be putting out much less damage in a fight than the other team's carry.
For AD autoattackers that value crit, ExCall is an extremely affordable and good item. The vast majority of tanky derps in Dom are AD casters for whom crit is meaningless and lifesteal is usually a second thought. If anyone should be getting ExCall it's melee and ranged autotattckers(eg "carries")

Quote:
On a related note, I hate it when a carry tries to build like a tanky dps. Build to the strengths of champions. This idea that everybody should build defensively is basically a way to compensate for poor teamwork. The rest of your team should have enough cc to protect you from their assassins, carries, and tank. If your team doesn't, you picked a poor team composition. Now, they can't protect you if you're out of position, but if you're all playing smart, you don't need to build that much defense. You should only build health for the first fight (Prospector's item or ruby crystal for a quick phage) and consider buying health after 3 core items. Let a carry be a carry.
There are no carries in Dom. A carry is called a carry because the team carries them through their sub-par early game, and then they carry the team as the main threat through the late game. The fact that most fights in Dominion are happening with only 2-4 champs means that each member has to be more self-sufficient. As a ranged or melee dps you can't expect to have a team there to hide behind. Because most of the time you won't. They shouldn't build like a tanky dps most of the time. But they certainly shouldn't expect their team to protect them when the oppposite team is made up of Poppy, Jax, Pantheon, Urgot, and WuKong.



Quote:
Lightbringer is usually a pretty poor item to get, mostly because it lacks crit chance. It's cost efficient, yes, but it delays your damage because that gold you spent could have been towards a PD. You want to get items that amplify your damage as you get more. Let your AP or tank get a hexsweeper if they have a stealth champion.
I don't play autoattackers often in Dom, but what I do know is that with the amount of brush there is the detection component of Lightbringer is adding damage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kiddalee

Senior Member

04-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infirc View Post
but but getting frozen mallet on Asheis such a waste, no seriously is a waste i've been trying to look for a +hp item useful on Ashe since warmogs was banned (and yes i used to run Hexdrinker+ warmogs Ashe+Sanguine Ashe
It isn't much, but Ionic Spark does come with a Ruby Crystal; Ashe could also squeeze by with a Zeke's Herald.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zuljin

Junior Member

04-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panwar View Post
For AD autoattackers that value crit, ExCall is an extremely affordable and good item. The vast majority of tanky derps in Dom are AD casters for whom crit is meaningless and lifesteal is usually a second thought. If anyone should be getting ExCall it's melee and ranged autotattckers(eg "carries")
The problem is: when do you get it? If you get it first item, it would only increase your damage by 15% on average, and only on auto-attacks. A B.F. Sword would increase your damage by far more, enhance your abilities (usually), and it only costs 300g more. You also wouldn't really have a need for the executioner's calling yet. After you finish your damage item, you need attack speed, and executioner's calling doesn't provide that. AS would be especially important if you build merc treads instead of berserker's greaves. Your third item is probably going to be either a black cleaver or last whisper to deal with the armor the other team is probably starting to get. So I guess you would get it after spending 10k - 11k gold on items, but you would probably need it by them if nobody is running ignite. And crit/ls isn't as useless on tanky dps as you make it out to be, especially later game when they probably finish their youmuu's to get attack speed for enhancing their auto attacks while their abilities are on cooldown. They should be the ones to deal with the tanky dps on the other team that has the crazy life gen. A carry should be able to kill them quickly after their healing has been debuffed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panwar View Post
There are no carries in Dom. A carry is called a carry because the team carries them through their sub-par early game, and then they carry the team as the main threat through the late game. The fact that most fights in Dominion are happening with only 2-4 champs means that each member has to be more self-sufficient. As a ranged or melee dps you can't expect to have a team there to hide behind. Because most of the time you won't. They shouldn't build like a tanky dps most of the time. But they certainly shouldn't expect their team to protect them when the oppposite team is made up of Poppy, Jax, Pantheon, Urgot, and WuKong.
I know what a carry is, I've been playing DotA games since 2004. There are definitely carries in dominion and they have a purpose being on a team. What you have argued is that carries are useless in dominion since they can't possibly be protected by their team (which I disagree with), and if they have to build like a tanky dps champion, why not just play a tanky dps champion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panwar View Post
I don't play autoattackers often in Dom, but what I do know is that with the amount of brush there is the detection component of Lightbringer is adding damage.
That wasn't the point of getting the lightbringer in the first place, it was for dealing with a stealth hero. If you are alone in the jungle and think you can get some damage off on a lone enemy, you probably don't want to leave the brush anyway. And then you have to worry about their stealth hero scouting you out anyway and you're in danger of getting ganked. Lightbringer does nothing for offensive detection. If you're with a team, they will provide vision in the brush. It seemed like you were really stretching to find a reason to poke a hole in my argument.

Lightbringer can be good for bottom lane champions because of the brush they can hide in, but for top I find it largely useless unless your AP or tank refuses to buy a hexsweeper.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Risemix

Senior Member

04-17-2012

Yes, I agree so much with this thread.

The problem for many champs is that their core items (items that are more or less required) are very expensive meaning counterbuilding is difficult until about level 10-11.

For Riven, for example, Entropy is core on Dominion, which includes a BF Sword. That's a big hunk of gold to save, even on Dominion.

Still, last game I built entropy and rather than going straight for other core items counterbuilt to their team (LW/Warden's Mail/MoM) and was pretty effective. None of those items are by any means core.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Panwar

Senior Member

04-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuljin View Post
The problem is: when do you get it?
I usually get it before finishing my BF item, but after BF sword and Zeal. I typcally grab the vamp scepter after the BF sword and hang on to it until I want ExCall.

I'm not saying that crit is useless on bruisers, merely that it isn't a high priority(though for for the purely AD casters it is close to useless). I play bruisers a lot I might finish a Youmuu's 1 out every 50 games. It's literally like the last thing that needs to be upgraded after your phage, and LW, and defenses. In fact usually the only reason I upgrade a Youmuu's is because I have no more item slots and not enough gold to upgrade whatever else needs it.


Quote:
I know what a carry is, I've been playing DotA games since 2004. There are definitely carries in dominion and they have a purpose being on a team. What you have argued is that carries are useless in dominion since they can't possibly be protected by their team (which I disagree with), and if they have to build like a tanky dps champion, why not just play a tanky dps champion?
It depends on what you mean by carry. If you are talking about champs with the carry tag, then they are perfectly useful. If however you mean that a champ with the carry tag will carry your game, then no, generally they will not. Barring games that go on for a very long time.

And if the enemy team has any number of blink-strke gap-closing nightmares that are common to Dom, you can't protect anyone if they built glass cannon. Especially since you will only have 1 or 2 other members of your team with you 75% of the time.

Quote:
That wasn't the point of getting the lightbringer in the first place, it was for dealing with a stealth hero. If you are alone in the jungle and think you can get some damage off on a lone enemy, you probably don't want to leave the brush anyway. And then you have to worry about their stealth hero scouting you out anyway and you're in danger of getting ganked. Lightbringer does nothing for offensive detection. If you're with a team, they will provide vision in the brush. It seemed like you were really stretching to find a reason to poke a hole in my argument.

Lightbringer can be good for bottom lane champions because of the brush they can hide in, but for top I find it largely useless unless your AP or tank refuses to buy a hexsweeper.
The FoG and Bushes are very easy to use defensively in Dom. That is the main purpose of Lightbringer(though it works well against stealth enemies as well) I don't know what you are talking about with all of that -hiding in a bush- talk. I'm not talking about ambushing another player. I'm saying where ever fights happen in Dom there is a lot of opportunity to break line of sight, and ranged dpsers in Dom already have it pretty rough keeping up steady dps. Having a lightbringer to maintain sight of the enemy is pretty darn good.


12