multiple tanks too strong late game?

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Nayuki

Senior Member

10-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Provoked View Post
Naykui, He wasn't talking about 1v1in it up in the forest. He was talking about team fights, this whole thread is about multiple tanks, not just how well they do versus a dps. I understand the point your making but it all changes when you throw in 2-3 more tanks with disables into the mix. I've played 1 match with 3 tanks in it (Alistar, Signed, Malphite) and it lasted forever. In the end they just played poorly and pushed a lane for too long for their own safety causing us to score an ace and ending the game. But I do see how a well played 3+ tank group has an advantage to a dps based group.
The problem is aside from pure DPS builds which have little utility this can be said of ANYTHING.

Lord, do you know the nightmare of playing a game with a pro Annie, Veigar and Anivia? STUN! STUN! FREEZE/STUN! Well, there your entire team went in about five seconds and nothing you could do about it. Even a decent tanky setup is going to take serious hurt just from their standard spells (and Annie doing a Tibber drop).

The big problem is the lack of viable MR penetrating items, once again, which unfortunately makes everything physical rather better than magical. That said, I stand by any three 'similar' heroes with the exception of near-no-utility heroes (Yi? Tristana? Ya, looking at your type) can absolutely decimate a less homogonous group of heroes.

The pure DPS no-utility types will absolutely rip the entire team apart if they get a team to panic, but tend to not be in the same bracket as pure disablers/pure tanks/etc


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number1jungle

Senior Member

10-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayuki View Post
...Two AP items? Using your singed example:


That aside, if you can't eat the ~450 damage a 'ap' build will do to you up front...that's sad. If Singed caught you while you were a DPS then either you overextended into a gank with poor map awareness or you really just sucked. He of course can chase to no end but he shouldn't have much chance of soloing you. With just this bunch of items your DPSer should have a couple tier 3 items as well and be able to toe-to-toe him and laugh unless he is simply a superior player.
As a ranged DPSer in my more recent games I dont ever recall soloing a late game singed.

Either I get owned or they get away with no chance of me chasing them down.

Im not a tournament level player or anything but in most games I'll have at least a 2:1 kill to death ratio and usually carry my team.

Anyways my point really isnt about a 1v1 situation.

Its those late game situations where big group fights become the norm and everyone is atiming for the hero thats about to die, DPSers will usually expose themselves to chase or focus fire, most battles in those situations the group with lots of tanks will end up winning because killing one tank among a group of them is very difficult.

Just like early game range DPSers usually have the advantage in terms of farming and harassing, late game tanks have major advantages. And with a group of them it becomes very apparant.


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Dagna

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Senior Member

10-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollerman View Post
Also, you guys were "stacked out DPS" champs, hence why you're so squishy.
Yup damage champs are supposed to be squishy because they gave up armor/res/hp for damage... Tanks on the other hand do not loose enough damage for gaining all the HP/armor/res. 1:1 or greater AP ratios on most tank abilities are the major cause of this... its just to easy to get the damage of your abilities up to par with a damage champ as a tank. I don't have an issue with building my char to the situation, but late game last whisperer and black cleaver don't seem to cut it vs tanks.


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Mjollnir

Senior Member

10-23-2009

Eh, tanks can be countered. Wit's ends + Black Cleavers + Last Whispers. Although, if you're caster, it does kind of suck. Magic Resist is far easier to get than magic penetration.


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Bregan

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Senior Member

10-24-2009

i fought a game as yi facing singed, chogath, alistar, tryndamere, and amumu.

i massed bloodrazor

so did teemo (the only other potential physical dps on the team)

we won. pretty easily too.


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Aknar

Senior Member

10-24-2009

agreed:tanks should be moving rocks,not sprinting machine guns


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Aknar

Senior Member

10-24-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjollnir View Post
Eh, tanks can be countered. Wit's ends + Black Cleavers + Last Whispers. Although, if you're caster, it does kind of suck. Magic Resist is far easier to get than magic penetration.
1:agreed

2:i don't think there's other magic pen. item despite abyssal scepter


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GNOY

Senior Member

10-24-2009

"For example, I dont think Singed with one AP item and rest all defensive gear should be able to take off almost 1/2 of a DPS's health"

Was your DPS 1st level with no survival items at all? Just curious. I think his throw eats around 300 HP at most, if I remember correctly, not counting magic resistance.


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GreatWeelo

Senior Member

10-24-2009

Between Bloodrazer and Wit's End, tanks can be made useless pretty easily. If they're stacking survival, they don't have the mana to last a fast-attacking Wit's wielder. And Bloodrazer chews through tanks no matter how much HP they stack.

Also, the scepter sucks for penetration, even being the only item that exists for it at the moment. If it weren't a unique passive, some value could be gained from stacking them. But as it is, I will only ever consider it on Fiddle or Karthus who can neutralize some MR on their own - that way I can stack penetration.

And just to add, if Singed is only grabbing a single AP item, he's doing it very wrong IMO.


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number1jungle

Senior Member

10-24-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregan View Post
i fought a game as yi facing singed, chogath, alistar, tryndamere, and amumu.

i massed bloodrazor

so did teemo (the only other potential physical dps on the team)

we won. pretty easily too.
If you won easily then it was meant to be.

No one is saying a all tank noob team can beat a no tank pro team.

If you read the original post I said when a game is evenly matched(ie. Both teams pushing lanes and ganking at about the same rate), LATE game the team with more tanks usually wins.


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