Locked Camera Discussion

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x SEM x

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Senior Member

04-23-2012

Is it possible to just have a 5v5 map that is horizontal instead of diagonal? Twisted Treeline doesn't have these issues that the Right side has on Summoner's Rift.

Make 3 lane that are all horizontal, make it similar to what's available in S.Rift, but shifted (ie Jungle minions, amount of bushes, etc). I guess it would be different and would take a little while for competitive people to adjust, but League of Legends doesn't need to be bound to the same map shape as Warcraft 3 maps. I'd imagine it kind of like a wide diamond shape to the lanes in a rectangle map, instead of a 90 degree angle lanes in a square map.

This would greatly fix the Camera Angle issue for one team, and make it fair. No need for Mirroring, if a Map was designed to handle how the camer angle would be.


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x SEM x

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Senior Member

04-23-2012

Another option to fix the Camera Angle issue that one side experiences but the other does not... is to allow a Toggle of the Camera Angle itself, to switch back and forth to satisfy which angle works better for which side/lane you are playing in.


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x SEM x

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Senior Member

04-23-2012

Suggestion for Locked vs. Free Camera:

Allow an option that let's you have a shifted view, that stays locked. I'd like it to be Locked, but with my champion closer to the edge than centered. So I hit the toggle button that let's me move the Free Camera to pan to one side. Then I click the toggle button again, to lock into place, with my Champion not Centered. So now I can keep a better view of the main battle area, with enough room to skill shots.

This is like an Intermediate Skill level camera. Free Camera is very difficult to use, or at least has a high learning curve, but to be able to use it temporarily, and adjust it on the fly according the situation would allow this suggested option to be the best option. It also is a nice bridge to get newer players more accustomed to controlling the Free Camera and bridge that learning curve gap.


Note: I'd likely not put my Champion on the edge, because I'd still want some vision on the other side of me to click/move, and see some danger, but I'd definitely manually set my own position to be 70/30.


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

04-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMx12 View Post
Suggestion for Locked vs. Free Camera:

Allow an option that let's you have a shifted view, that stays locked. I'd like it to be Locked, but with my champion closer to the edge than centered. So I hit the toggle button that let's me move the Free Camera to pan to one side. Then I click the toggle button again, to lock into place, with my Champion not Centered. So now I can keep a better view of the main battle area, with enough room to skill shots.

This is like an Intermediate Skill level camera. Free Camera is very difficult to use, or at least has a high learning curve, but to be able to use it temporarily, and adjust it on the fly according the situation would allow this suggested option to be the best option. It also is a nice bridge to get newer players more accustomed to controlling the Free Camera and bridge that learning curve gap.


Note: I'd likely not put my Champion on the edge, because I'd still want some vision on the other side of me to click/move, and see some danger, but I'd definitely manually set my own position to be 70/30.
This seems to be the main reasonable suggestion that people talk about. Allowing an offset camera angle might work.


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Khirsah

Junior Member

04-24-2012

I'm another Locked Camera Player. I prefer Blue because almost all other games out there of any type will start you on bottom, and you go to the top. For the few other games that allow for the reverse, you have a much larger zoom allowance to compensate. Blue is also preferred because there really ARE benefits to being on blue, there are none for Purple whatsoever. It's all negatives.

I believe the reason for the outrage about Purple, is because the game mechanics allow for favoritism of Blue on a crucial map. Dominion is even with how the map is set up, and Twisted Treeline is also even. Summoner's Rift is the only map that is regularly played (and used in tournaments exclusively it seems) and has a blatant imbalance.

Free Cam players still acknowledge that there's a severe penalty for getting "thrown" on Purple. They also agree that the "Elo balance" is not a balance at all but a horrible cover up. All players get frustrated at the Purple dodgers. We know we all have to go on Purple sometime, but it's worse when you're ready to deal with your fate, but other people will duck out and bail on purpose because they don't want to deal with being Purple. Anyways...

I like Locked Camera for multiple reasons:
1. I can keep tabs on my character at all times, it's in the same spot
2. All other games no matter what genre will "follow" your character, so everyone knows how to hover/click your mouse on moving targets
3. No annoying "micromanaging" I will explain this later, it's downright deadly.
4. A TON more map awareness due to being able to focus on overall game more
5. Overall less overload stress, less hassle, more fun

I hate going Free Cam every time I do it, it's awkward, and no matter how low I set the bar for camera movement speed, it's still ridiculously jerky and fast. I even tried mapping my camera movement keys from the arrow keys to SZXC so it would be near the game keys, but that doesn't fix the jerkiness and speed and then I fumble my skills cause I spend too much time in camera management instead of actually playing the game.

The Problem with Micromanaging (AKA: Your mouse is your enemy)
Free Cam takes way too much adjusting, and you lose yourself in trying to see around you. This causes you to wave your mouse EVERYWHERE losing time, and costing you your life. Here's the #1 problem with Free Cam: Your mouse. And here's why:
1. You use your mouse for basic attacking
2. You use your mouse for selecting targets for targeted skills
3. You use your mouse for aimed skillshots
4. You use your mouse for moving/dodging
5. You use your mouse for Free Cam Management <- All your eggs in one basket = lots of problems.

Almost everything in the game hinges on the mouse. You really only use QWER and DF for skills, and that's about the most use your keyboard gets on this game. We aren't able to shift something like champion movement to keyboard, so we can't free up the mouse for Free Cam. It's a waste of time to be forced to flick your mouse way off target for .5 seconds to get the camera downrange (to the lower left usually), and then pull the mouse all the way back to move into better position, now you can aim. Problem is, the target could have just simply moved out of prime real estate, so you can't nuke them now. So it's a wasted effort. It's not a simple aim/skill/boom. You end up with reaction lag, and it costs you dearly every time either on missed kills, or getting killed. Of course, this is talking about Purple. Blue usually sees feet or legs running about, so you aim upwards at where the feet are going, this means less camera management because you have a little bit of cheater view. Purple Free Cam users have to compensate more than Blue Free Cam in this sense and so even if everyone could magically play Free Cam flawlessly, there would still be a problem.

About the potential fixes:
I'm confused as to why Zoom extension isn't considered a good option. I don't see how a small increase to Zoom would be detrimental, considering we do have the Fog of War to keep us all balanced. The problem is that the bottom of your "viewing field" is cut off and we can't see there due to UI and camera angle. I think that if we were able to Zoom out to where we could see the full circle of viewing space above the UI would help tremendously. Maybe to put everyone on an even field, how about utilizing the "black box" fix in the case of the black bars you get on widescreen monitors when trying to view a "fullscreen" (4:3) image? I'd say to use it on top and bottom and leave the UI at the bottom so it'll be the lower "black box". Then everyone regardless of monitor or resolution will see the same range. Yeah it wouldn't look pretty, but even with all the other options, all the other ones seem to have been shot down. On another note, I'm another person voting for map mirroring of Summoner's Rift, even though I know it would be an overhaul. It would get rid of the advantages of being Blue and put everyone on an even playing field. That's what we all want (Free and Locked Cam users) is an even playing field for both Blue and Purple.

Config.ini issues and the Camera Statistics:
I also was not counted in the "Locked Cam Statistics" because I also have the issue of having to lock my camera after every completed match. I believe the guy that mentioned about the config.ini locked camera settings being reset after completed matches is right. I had done some messing around in Customs for a long time one night and I had just been trying to find a good start setup for a champ. Because I had kept exiting the game and not finishing, I didn't have to relock. But once I had played through a full Custom, I noticed that my next game was started in free cam mode. Because a lot of people are vocal about having this issue, I do think that the stats are way off. People have been leaving the game due to issues with camera or ridicule because they're not able to magically adapt, and so I think that this is way more of an issue than previously thought. So many more have just up and left instead of coming on the forums to voice their opinion.

Sorry for the long post, but this is what I've noticed.


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Sedgitize

Junior Member

04-24-2012

I would also like to mention that "good players use unlocked" is really not a good excuse. Here is why...

So supposedly the majority of high elo players use unlocked,'m ut why do they? It's an annoyamce to have to move your camera when you need to be moving your champ, and placing a skill shot. There is no real utility in it in that sense. They use it because they have to in order to see the area around them. It is an inconvenience that learned to deal with because there hasn't been a better fix imple,ented yet. If we could zoom out more than there really wouldn't be a logical reason to use unlocked other than uber long skill ranges like Ashe ult, or personal preference.

I know you've instructed me to take that up with Morello, or this Zilead fellow who will troll me, but the good players use it isn't a good reason. You mist look at why the high elo players use it... and that's because players need to add another thimg to manage with already encumbered mouse, as the above poster stated, just to see immediate surroundings.

I do hope you don't receive this as bashing. I simply hope to supply constructive criticism to help make the game better if I can in any way. The argument of good players use unlocked is a bad one though. Unlocked is nice, but it is also only a half fix to a problem, and we only trade one hinderance for another, without fully solving the main issue.


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

04-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedgitize View Post
I would also like to mention that "good players use unlocked" is really not a good excuse. Here is why...

So supposedly the majority of high elo players use unlocked,'m ut why do they? It's an annoyamce to have to move your camera when you need to be moving your champ, and placing a skill shot. There is no real utility in it in that sense. They use it because they have to in order to see the area around them. It is an inconvenience that learned to deal with because there hasn't been a better fix imple,ented yet. If we could zoom out more than there really wouldn't be a logical reason to use unlocked other than uber long skill ranges like Ashe ult, or personal preference.

I know you've instructed me to take that up with Morello, or this Zilead fellow who will troll me, but the good players use it isn't a good reason. You mist look at why the high elo players use it... and that's because players need to add another thimg to manage with already encumbered mouse, as the above poster stated, just to see immediate surroundings.

I do hope you don't receive this as bashing. I simply hope to supply constructive criticism to help make the game better if I can in any way. The argument of good players use unlocked is a bad one though. Unlocked is nice, but it is also only a half fix to a problem, and we only trade one hinderance for another, without fully solving the main issue.
Good points. Allowing a little more zoom would really negate the need to use unlocked camera, except for a few occasions when you're looking around the map. The main reason people feel they have to use unlocked is because of the small viewable area around their champion, in my opinion. I'm not asking to see half of the map in my camera view, but I'd at least like to see the "lit up" portion of the map that my champion is on.


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AQUARID

Senior Member

04-25-2012

i used to played locked screen ALL the time and used the minimap for everything else..but 1 day i started farming with unlocked screen focused on the creeps..it was so much easier..then i realised skillshots were easier without a moving screen too. i dont really care about the area of view u get as thats wat the minimaps for.


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DarkÇide

Member

04-25-2012

It's not like we haven't tried to play unlocked Aquarid, it's just that some of us can handle clicking on a moving target and we don't share your opinion that creep farming and skill shots are easier with unlocked view and we never will.

On a side note, lately I find myself checking the forums to see if there is any progress on this issue instead of logging in to play League of Legends. And then I see there is no sign of change so I move on to the next game I feel like playing.

I log in to League and run a couple bot games (because that's the only way I know I can play from the side of the map that I can play comfortably on) and it's just so easy I get bored after a game or two, in fact I am almost willing to bet I have more bot games played than anyone else on the internet, seems like a bold claim but I have 2000+ bot games played and I've never seen anyone else close to that number in post game stats. It's embarrassing quite frankly to have so many bot games played because normally I play way more PvP than PvE in any game I play, this is the first game to turn me off on PvP for any reason, and it's making me wonder why I play at all. Is it just because I have too much money sunk into the game to give up on the chance for a game experience I would enjoy? YES. Have I been wrong in assuming Riot would eventually see the error of their ways and add the feature that should have been added before release? Yes. Some days I feel lucky and I queue up for a PvP game but as soon as I get one morale crushing purple side loss which is very anti-fun with the impairment on purple side, I just ask myself why I bother to play a game that has such a huge chance to not be fun just based on a simple one in two chance of getting purple team. I found that lately I just cringe at the idea of entering a PvP queue because I know the chance of having a very not-fun game are far too high, where I can play a bot game or two and know I wont get frustrated to the point where I want to un-install just because I can't carry hard enough from purple side to make up for the trolls. Basically I'm saying there are too many other random reasons that can lead to not having a fun game, most can be blamed on a bad community of players overall, but when you throw map imbalance into the mix it just becomes an undesirable experience more often than necessary just to play the game that's meant to to a featured fun time activity. It's a vicious cycle of non-fun highlighted with some fun moments here and there which I over glorify to myself when I talk myself into playing another game.

Oh sh*t, I'm rambling again...


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

04-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkide View Post
It's not like we haven't tried to play unlocked Aquarid, it's just that some of us can handle clicking on a moving target and we don't share your opinion that creep farming and skill shots are easier with unlocked view and we never will.

On a side note, lately I find myself checking the forums to see if there is any progress on this issue instead of logging in to play League of Legends. And then I see there is no sign of change so I move on to the next game I feel like playing.

I log in to League and run a couple bot games (because that's the only way I know I can play from the side of the map that I can play comfortably on) and it's just so easy I get bored after a game or two, in fact I am almost willing to bet I have more bot games played than anyone else on the internet, seems like a bold claim but I have 2000+ bot games played and I've never seen anyone else close to that number in post game stats. It's embarrassing quite frankly to have so many bot games played because normally I play way more PvP than PvE in any game I play, this is the first game to turn me off on PvP for any reason, and it's making me wonder why I play at all. Is it just because I have too much money sunk into the game to give up on the chance for a game experience I would enjoy? YES. Have I been wrong in assuming Riot would eventually see the error of their ways and add the feature that should have been added before release? Yes. Some days I feel lucky and I queue up for a PvP game but as soon as I get one morale crushing purple side loss which is very anti-fun with the impairment on purple side, I just ask myself why I bother to play a game that has such a huge chance to not be fun just based on a simple one in two chance of getting purple team. I found that lately I just cringe at the idea of entering a PvP queue because I know the chance of having a very not-fun game are far too high, where I can play a bot game or two and know I wont get frustrated to the point where I want to un-install just because I can't carry hard enough from purple side to make up for the trolls. Basically I'm saying there are too many other random reasons that can lead to not having a fun game, most can be blamed on a bad community of players overall, but when you throw map imbalance into the mix it just becomes an undesirable experience more often than necessary just to play the game that's meant to to a featured fun time activity. It's a vicious cycle of non-fun highlighted with some fun moments here and there which I over glorify to myself when I talk myself into playing another game.

Oh sh*t, I'm rambling again...
I feel the same way you do. The highlight of any game I play is when I see I'm on blue side in champ select -.-