Locked Camera Discussion

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boourns

UI Designer

04-20-2012
16 of 82 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcup View Post
While I do somewhat agree with this statement, the fact of the matter is, there's still tons of players who can't multitask as well as others. LoL is the first RTS I've ever played, and all of the other games I've played have the camera locked on your character, with your character looking forward, not at you. My fiancé plays Starcraft so she's used to the constant mouse flicking to the edges of the screen to move the camera around. I am not. I've tried, and it literally annoys the h3ll out of me. It's a miserable experience when I see I'm on purple side in champ select, because I know I can't play the champions I want.

I'd hate to call the inability to use an unlocked camera a handicap, but that's the way I feel sometimes. I also don't like to be belittled and made fun of for doing so. Almost every forum thread related to unlocked vs locked camera usage has at least one person that feels the need to say: "lol noobs, use unlocked camera" or "ITT baddies using locked cameras". Of course, they get away with it, because there is no report function on the forums, but that's a whole other topic.

Basically, I think there's enough evidence to say that this *is* a problem, and we deserve a change.
I definitely agree that we don't want locked camera players to have a bad experience. What if I told you I thought the best way to address this was to make unlocked camera easier to use for people who are accustomed to locked camera (I actually did say that in an earlier post...)? I'd love to see more discussion on that. There have been some interesting suggestions that have some problems, but I'd love to hear some more along those lines.

I've read all the posts that people have made and I'm not satisfied with band-aid solutions like flipping the UI to the top or changing the camera (which only hides the problem by making it less obvious during the laning phase). There is still a huge situational awareness penalty and problems with using long rage abilities. The purple/blue side view distance just makes it more obvious on purple side. How can we solve these problems and still preserve the things that people like about locked camera mode?


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Kai Talakki

Member

04-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
I've read all the posts that people have made and I'm not satisfied with band-aid solutions like flipping the UI to the top or changing the camera (which only hides the problem by making it less obvious during the laning phase). There is still a huge situational awareness penalty and problems with using long rage abilities. The purple/blue side view distance just makes it more obvious on purple side. How can we solve these problems and still preserve the things that people like about locked camera mode?
However, some of us are choosing to use locked camera, knowing it gives us less "situational awareness". It's a situation we're choosing, and for a more 'aware' locked camera in that case the only fix that would still keep locked camera as locked camera is the more zoom option, which has been redundantly stated as being not viable. Even then it would only fix the problem for people who would even want to be zoomed out. I've honestly just taken to keeping an eye on the mini-map and being careful when I see enemies getting close and I feel that that gives me plenty of awareness.

The ideas like the camera tied to the champion that still scrolls at the edges doesn't sit right for me. My problem with unlocked camera is accidentally scrolling the camera when my cursor gets to the edge. These kinds of fixes I feel bring in that problem and don't keep what I like about the locked camera.

I don't know. My two cents here. I feel like this situation will just continue going around in a circle because it seems like the solutions that are being suggested either don't fix the problem or are said to create more.


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Defy Logic

Senior Member

04-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
I definitely agree that we don't want locked camera players to have a bad experience. What if I told you I thought the best way to address this was to make unlocked camera easier to use for people who are accustomed to locked camera (I actually did say that in an earlier post...)? I'd love to see more discussion on that. There have been some interesting suggestions that have some problems, but I'd love to hear some more along those lines.

I've read all the posts that people have made and I'm not satisfied with band-aid solutions like flipping the UI to the top or changing the camera (which only hides the problem by making it less obvious during the laning phase). There is still a huge situational awareness penalty and problems with using long rage abilities. The purple/blue side view distance just makes it more obvious on purple side. How can we solve these problems and still preserve the things that people like about locked camera mode?
What I would find helpful is for example on purple team, being able to scroll a little down so that my character is at the edge of the screen and then "lock it" there rather than on the center of my character.


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Geoson

Senior Member

04-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
I definitely agree that we don't want locked camera players to have a bad experience. What if I told you I thought the best way to address this was to make unlocked camera easier to use for people who are accustomed to locked camera (I actually did say that in an earlier post...)? I'd love to see more discussion on that. There have been some interesting suggestions that have some problems, but I'd love to hear some more along those lines.

I've read all the posts that people have made and I'm not satisfied with band-aid solutions like flipping the UI to the top or changing the camera (which only hides the problem by making it less obvious during the laning phase). There is still a huge situational awareness penalty and problems with using long rage abilities. The purple/blue side view distance just makes it more obvious on purple side. How can we solve these problems and still preserve the things that people like about locked camera mode?
I think that if you wanted to you could combine both and make a middle ground type setting that could help ease players into unlocked mode, but still retaining the main reason they used locked (mostly the means of being able to not lose track of your champion).

It would allow you to move the camera just like in unlocked mode, but it won't let you go too far out. Basically meaning you would have a small area around you that you can look at, but you will never be able to not see your champion. It doesn't even need to be that big, just enough so that people can use champions with long ranges without being gimped depending on which team they are on / lane,


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gzboli

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Senior Member

04-20-2012

I think if you are going to make any improvements to camera positioning in Locked mode that spring-based or otherwise interpolated easing is NOT the way to go. Currently, both camera modes work because the movement is predictable. I might even go so far as to claim that any camera movement without input from the player would be disadvantageous.

... I'm curious how locked cam players feel when getting Blitz hooked or gragas ult'd.


A couple ideas (I've read the red replies but not all posts, sorry if this is a repeat):

1) Mouse-Lock: Holding spacebar locks the camera to the mouse instead of the champion. Or locks the camera to the location halfway between the mouse and the champion. Release spacebar to return to champion. (HARD SNAPS!)

2) Locked Panning: Holding the spacebar + clickDragging while in locked cam allows the center of the camera lock to be offset from the player. Tapping spacebar reverts the offset back to the player. This allows for a custom offset during the laning phase and then reverting to normal locked cam later on. ( I actually don't like this idea much)


Random free-cam wishlist:
Make the screen corner detection rounded/beveled so that scrolling dialogonally doesn't require hitting the single corner-most pixel.


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gzboli

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Senior Member

04-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoson View Post
It would allow you to move the camera just like in unlocked mode, but it won't let you go too far out. Basically meaning you would have a small area around you that you can look at, but you will never be able to not see your champion. It doesn't even need to be that big, just enough so that people can use champions with long ranges without being gimped depending on which team they are on / lane,
I like that a lot!


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DarkTyrian

Member

04-20-2012

What is it that people like about locked-camera mode?

  • Locked camera mode provides the player with a hands-free type experience that allows them to move around the map without the need to constantly reposition their camera.
  • It keeps your Champion in a fixed location (centered) on the screen thus giving you an easy point of reference when things begin to get hectic in team fights.
  • Provides you with the most visibility of the surrounding area around your champion since it is always on center.

Why locked-camera is bad?
  • Supposedly you lose map awareness if you lock your camera. (As if you are somehow are unable to unlock it when needing to check other parts of the map.)
  • Legitimately, long range abilities like Kog-maw’s Ult can easily reach the outer part of your view if you are in locked camera. Making it difficult to use and/or lead champs who are at long ranges.

How do we fix this?

Combine them! Create “Sticky Camera Mode”. Remove the boarder lock completely. Instead, much like locked camera, the camera follows the players champion only while it is visible on screen. However, with the boarders unlocked you can move the cursor to the edge of the screen to move it around and reposition the camera how you like. So you can essentially end up with your champion at the top right of the screen and still have it follow you in that same position. Pressing space bar will move it back to a centered locked view as default.

Once the player scrolls far enough so that the players champ is no longer on screen the camera is no longer locked and is now in “free-mode”. It functions just like the current unlocked camera does, it does not move with your camp and will stay in the same position until the cursor reaches the boarder to move it to a new location. Once you move the camera back into a position where your champion is visible on screen (or press space bar), it begins to follow the champ again in “Sticky Mode”.

Ship it!


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boourns

UI Designer

04-20-2012
17 of 82 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Talakki View Post
However, some of us are choosing to use locked camera, knowing it gives us less "situational awareness". It's a situation we're choosing, and for a more 'aware' locked camera in that case the only fix that would still keep locked camera as locked camera is the more zoom option, which has been redundantly stated as being not viable. Even then it would only fix the problem for people who would even want to be zoomed out. I've honestly just taken to keeping an eye on the mini-map and being careful when I see enemies getting close and I feel that that gives me plenty of awareness.

The ideas like the camera tied to the champion that still scrolls at the edges doesn't sit right for me. My problem with unlocked camera is accidentally scrolling the camera when my cursor gets to the edge. These kinds of fixes I feel bring in that problem and don't keep what I like about the locked camera.

I don't know. My two cents here. I feel like this situation will just continue going around in a circle because it seems like the solutions that are being suggested either don't fix the problem or are said to create more.
Can you articulate what you like about locked camera or dislike about free camera that makes you want to sacrifice situational awareness for this experience? Those are things we would want to preserve while still improving on the disadvantages of locked camera.


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Solari Brigadier

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Senior Member

04-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
Can you articulate what you like about locked camera or dislike about free camera that makes you want to sacrifice situational awareness for this experience? Those are things we would want to preserve while still improving on the disadvantages of locked camera.
I don't use locked camera myself, but I have a few friends who do, and I've talked to them about why they choose to use it.

It makes playing the game less stressful, by reducing the amount of actions per minute required of the player.

It removes the frustration of a missed skillshot or quick death that was caused by accidentally scrolling off the screen.

It allows both for better focus on your own champion's actions and also the minimap, since you don't have to constantly adjust your screen.

Essentially, it smooths out the game experience and makes it, according to my friends who use it, more relaxing and (by extension) fun.


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Kai Talakki

Member

04-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
Can you articulate what you like about locked camera or dislike about free camera that makes you want to sacrifice situational awareness for this experience? Those are things we would want to preserve while still improving on the disadvantages of locked camera.
What I like about locked camera:
-Always knowing where my champion is on the screen and being able to see them.
-Having a static camera position in relation to my champion. I feel that it personally allows me to focus more on the situation while a camera that moves at the edges feels like a distraction.

What I don't like about unlocked camera:
-Accidentally scrolling the camera when trying to run away/aim a skillshot and dying because of it.
-Losing my champion from my vision range.
-Having to manage the camera's position rather than having it move with me.
-Just gives me something else to worry about and manage.

I have never felt like I sacrifice situational awareness unless I'm on purple and even then it's only during the laning phase when I'm mid or close to my team's turrets in bot/top, and the only reason that is is because of the UI blocking the enemy champions.