Atma's nerf makes literally no sense.

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Warm Gun

Senior Member

04-09-2012

If you want to Nerf something, Nerf last whisper. Pay 900 gold for %40 armor pen? how is that more balanced than Atmas?


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Carnack

Senior Member

04-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeves View Post
It has been scaling out of control and unnecessarily limits item selection because it is the clear best item in terms of what stats it is giving..
There will always be items that are the best. People never have enough gold for an IE and pick up a longsword because the decision is stupidly simple.

Nerf Atma's? Do it. There will be another "Best Item" and another and another until you get rid of every item in the game. There are items that clearly give better damage, mitigation, and HP. These limit item selection as well by virtue of being better than other items that provide those stats.


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serverny JR

Senior Member

04-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeves View Post
I understand that people like Atma's, but it was unfortunately really OP in terms of gold values. At 2000 HP it was giving the gold value of most tier 3 items, and at 3000 hp (ie. Warmog's + Atma's) it was getting silly. It has been scaling out of control and unnecessarily limits item selection because it is the clear best item in terms of what stats it is giving.

We've been messing around with a lot of new items internally recently. We really like the choices that an item like Maw of Malmortius gives right now, where these fighters can adapt to the field and build accordingly. We're looking at releasing more items of that nature going forward based on how the game is playing out.
DOUBLE AP RAPED IPL...

BETTER NERF ALL BRUISERS!

P.S. Also, Atmas being too cost effective is a lie, a LOT of items have higher cost efficiency even in full 16k gold builds. Too bad these are AP and AD carry items.


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King Money

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Senior Member

04-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeves View Post
I understand that people like Atma's, but it was unfortunately really OP in terms of gold values. At 2000 HP it was giving the gold value of most tier 3 items, and at 3000 hp (ie. Warmog's + Atma's) it was getting silly. It has been scaling out of control and unnecessarily limits item selection because it is the clear best item in terms of what stats it is giving.

We've been messing around with a lot of new items internally recently. We really like the choices that an item like Maw of Malmortius gives right now, where these fighters can adapt to the field and build accordingly. We're looking at releasing more items of that nature going forward based on how the game is playing out.
you're wrong.


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Chaede

Senior Member

04-09-2012

Atmas did need a nerf or a price increase. I agree that there is not a lot of options for bruisers but it was the go to item.

I think it will still be fine for the cost.

I wouldn't compare it to IE or deathcap since both of those items were a lot more expensive (almost twice the cost) or atmas and provide no defense.

I would like to see some more variety in goto items for Tier 3. That or some gating on items in terms of you can't get IE till level 15 or w/e. At the moment it is rare to have a game without wriggles, BT, IE, PD, Deathcap being in the game... every game. It doesn't feel like there is much variation or choice in items for certain classes since it is inferior to pick up the alternatives in just about every case.

TLDR: the nerf is fine for the cost of the item relative to IE and Deathcap for the power it gives.


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Valtegor

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Senior Member

04-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeves View Post
I understand that people like Atma's, but it was unfortunately really OP in terms of gold values. At 2000 HP it was giving the gold value of most tier 3 items, and at 3000 hp (ie. Warmog's + Atma's) it was getting silly.
Let us take a look at our "Tier 3" Atma's:
Atma's Impailer - 2355g
Giant's Belt - 1110g
Ruby Crystal - 475g
Total Cost: 3940 gold

Let's see the gold value with a 2k base HP champion:
45 Armor - 700g
18% Crit - 830g
610 HP - 1574g
52 AD - 1906g
Total Value: 5010g at 2610HP
Value over cost: 1070g

Now lets take a look at Infinity Edge, a "real Tier 3 item"
Cost: 3830

Value:
80AD = 2933g
25% Crit = 1153g
Passive: Worth 20 AD (see below) = 733g
Total Value: 4819 As the one and only item on a carry
Value over cost: 989g

Passive calculation:
Let us take a level 18 Ashe (we assumed 2k base hp for Atma after all). Flat AD marks and quints. 21 offense masteries. Infinity Edge. That's all.
AD: 205
Crit: 25%
Another words, the 50% crit damage increase is 205 * .5 *.25 = 25 damage.
How much flat AD do we need to match that average 25 damage a shot? (X * 2.1 * 0.25) + 0.75X = 25; x = 19.6
Let's call it an even 20 AD.

** While I'm using Ashe as the example, I'm ignoring the value of the ridiculously good bonus IE gives combined with her passive.



TL;DR
Read the bold.

Then consider the inventory space in question.
Then consider the meager additional health the bruiser will purchase
Then consider the meager additional crit and attack speed the bruiser will purchase to further the scaling.
Then consider that the IE passive will scale, multiplicatively, with each of AD, Attack speed, Crit, Armor Pen.


PS:
Just for giggles, lets give Ashe BT, LW, PD, PD on top:
345 AD
85% Crit
Bonus damage: 345 * .5 * .85 = 146
AD Value: 75 = 2750g
HP required for Atma's to match free stats of IE (you pay for 22AD on atma): 4850HP

I conveniently left out elixirs. Oh and the fact that, you know, Ashe goes from 1.06 to 1.78 attacks per second and in the mean time and ignores half of her target's armor.

I don't know about you guys, but I've never gotten 5k HP on any champion with a remotely serious build. Meanwhile, IE LW BT PD PD GA is an eventuality if the game drags on for a ranged carry, not a gimmick. In fact, we just saw it in tournament play a couple of days ago.

Why is Atma's getting singled out again?


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serverny JR

Senior Member

04-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveroadkill View Post
but rabbadons is a required item on every ap pretty much and you don't seem to mind that :/
Rabaddons is also MORE cost effective with full build... gasp!
So is AD carry with IE build - it is more cost effective in the end of game.

Too bad bruisers are not allowed to have pretty shiny stuff, like these dual AP teams winning IPL4 and stuff.


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HikaruIchijo

Senior Member

04-09-2012

Excellent post bro.


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Thorthedark

Senior Member

04-09-2012

Pretty sure their plan is to just make Renekton (my favorite champ) even more worthless than he already is.


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Chaede

Senior Member

04-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by serverny JR View Post
Rabaddons is also MORE cost effective with full build... gasp!
So is AD carry with IE build - it is more cost effective in the end of game.

Too bad bruisers are not allowed to have pretty shiny stuff, like these dual AP teams winning IPL4 and stuff.
Rabbadons doesn't also give defensive stats. It is a 1 stat boost item. Atmas gives armour, crit and AD.