Are the nuke heroes too weak early game?

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Dyllyn

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Member

10-22-2009

Okay: This is a comparison of the relative powers of nuker heroes (Annie) in LoL versus dota nukers (Lina Inverse)

While Lina doesn't see tournament play, she sees casual play and can be fairly deadly. I imagine Annie wouldn't see competitive play either, so i think it's a fair comparison.

In dota, nuke heroes traditionally are powerful till about 30-40 minutes in, until the point where the carries take over in burst dps and chars like lina and zeus are relegated to standing in the back and throwing spells.

What matters is that in dota, by around level 7 most of the nuke heroes are capable of putting out enough burst dps to kill anyone in about 5 seconds, after which the hero has to wait for cooldowns before the burst comes back. This puts them at advantage over carries and str heroes - the stats of the others have not caught up and int heroes dominate the game for a window of time.

By level 9, Lina is capable of putting out about 900 points of magic damage in a few short seconds. Annie, at level 9, puts out a measly 665 (before ability power, but lets face it, you probably only have +30 at most) damage in comparison (assuming level 5 disintegrate, lvl 3 incinerate). Lina also has access to an AOE stun on demand, and the cast range is way better.

Furthermore, burst damage is severly weakened when the summoner heal is added into the equation. Blowing cooldowns to blast a guy doesn't work so well when the whole team has access to aoe heals.


So, direct damage spells need to be buffed. The damage at levels 4 and 5 should be higher - it's going to take a longer time to get level 5, and health points are a lot cheaper in LoL than dota. The ranges on most targetted damage spells should be higher: Zeus doesn't have to get into swinging range to deal damage; Lightning bolt has a fantastic 700 range, and arc lightning maybe more.

TLDR: Buff the burst damage on nuker heroes, who benefit less from higher levels than carries and tanks.

feel free to refute, i'm not exactly a genius at this kind of thing


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GNOY

Senior Member

10-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyllyn View Post
While Lina doesn't see tournament play, she sees casual play and can be fairly deadly.
I must say, that I stopped reading this after this line. No offence.


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Ponies Gonna Pwn

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Adjudicator

10-22-2009

Spell DPS heroes scale to late game in LoL too, unlike DotA.
Also, it's a pretty retarded mechanic to have some heroes that can instagib others, but only for a certain amount of time.


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Dyllyn

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10-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNOY View Post
I must say, that I stopped reading this after this line. No offence.
I'm wrong about fairly deadly, aren't i


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Prometheus

Recruiter

10-22-2009

I'm voting "no" on this. The existence of ability power means that unlike in DotA, nukers continue to gain spell damage throughout the game (sometimes to an infinite degree, in the case o champions like Veigar).


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Aeonus

Senior Member

10-22-2009

lol Don't count out the nukers
While miniscule start game they become lords of the battlefield late game
Take ol Veigar and Ryze for instance
While annoying at best to start with the later the game gets and the stronger they get the deadlier they are.

Same goes for ol Lich too stack up some AP on him get him to a decent level say 12 and watch the fun ensue when the ult goes off blasting all enemy champs ont he field lol


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Grumm

Senior Member

10-22-2009

Wanna play against an decent Veigar after this c hange?
I guess not... Right now i can deal around 500 < damage with Veigar, that is more than enough...


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CaducityX

Junior Member

10-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyllyn View Post
By level 9, Lina is capable of putting out about 900 points of magic damage in a few short seconds. Annie, at level 9, puts out a measly 665 (before ability power, but lets face it, you probably only have +30 at most)
I'm a Anivia player and I'm not sure about everyone else, but at level 9 I'm usually around 120 AP, and my alpha strike can take any non tanks down by about 80% at that time. Also unlike Dota like most of the people have said, the scaling AP is what makes it even, end game you can hit 400 - 600 AP with most spell casting heroes, less if you want to not die in seconds, but that much AP can make someone cry real fast.

AP is the main reason I like this game over Dota, it allows all characters, Casters/otherwise to be good at any point of the game.


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Shizz

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Senior Member

10-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaducityX View Post
I'm a Anivia player and I'm not sure about everyone else, but at level 9 I'm usually around 120 AP, and my alpha strike can take any non tanks down by about 80% at that time. Also unlike Dota like most of the people have said, the scaling AP is what makes it even, end game you can hit 400 - 600 AP with most spell casting heroes, less if you want to not die in seconds, but that much AP can make someone cry real fast.

AP is the main reason I like this game over Dota, it allows all characters, Casters/otherwise to be good at any point of the game.
Can you teach me how to Alpha Strike with Anivia?
Did your Anivia get training from Master Yi?


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CaducityX

Junior Member

10-22-2009

Lol, I forgot that is actually another ability.

My Alpha Strike at lvl 9 is:

Roll up, put down a Hurricane, Frostbite immediately, and then shoot the Ice Ball at them and blow it up when it passes through them. Plus auto attacking. If I think I can kill them I'll put my wall in front of them so they have to stay in the hurricane for a second longer, if not I'll cut hurricane off and chase them to combo all over again in a few seconds.

At 9 I have Lvl 2 Ice Ball, Lvl 1 Wall (Very useful), Lvl 5 Frostbite, Lvl 1 Hurricane.


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