Jungling

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DFused

Junior Member

04-04-2012

Is there a way to jungle with anyone ranged or melee ap or damge wiithout smite?


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Bunnymo chan

Senior Member

04-04-2012

smite isnt needed to jungle per say, but having dragon/baron/ancient buff stolen is the downside. That is the primary reason for having smite when jungling.

Shaco, tryn, udyr, lee sin, ect dont need smite but smite is needed just not having something stolen


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SweetSheets

Member

04-04-2012

if you lane till like level 3 and rush madred's... maybe you could do a twitch or teemo jungle without smite... but it would be risky and very slow. and your runes/masteries would be primarily composed of defense.


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Niceguydan8

Senior Member

04-04-2012

I don't think fiddlesticks NEEDS smite as long as he gets a pull. Then again he's a slow as **** even WITH smite, and smite will speed up your jungle time significantly compared to someone that doesn't use smite.

It's possible, but you'd be foolish to jungle without smite.


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SweetSheets

Member

04-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niceguydan8 View Post
I don't think fiddlesticks NEEDS smite as long as he gets a pull. Then again he's a slow as **** even WITH smite, and smite will speed up your jungle time significantly compared to someone that doesn't use smite.

It's possible, but you'd be foolish to jungle without smite.
I play fid without smite regularly, get a hard leash at blue, get your E, then go to wolves, banshees, red, golems then gank the lane you are closest too. CJ a bit and you're set. Fiddle might not be the fastest jungle, but he's one of the strongest AP Jungles and most fun.


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Niceguydan8

Senior Member

04-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSheets View Post
I play fid without smite regularly, get a hard leash at blue, get your E, then go to wolves, banshees, red, golems then gank the lane you are closest too. CJ a bit and you're set. Fiddle might not be the fastest jungle, but he's one of the strongest AP Jungles and most fun.
Please use smite when you jungle.

Your team will rage at you if the following happens: (and they will happen if you continue to jungle without smite)
-Dragon gets stolen
-Baron gets stolen
-You get counter jungled and behind because you clear much slower than the enemy jungler.

A decent jungler will see that you don't have smite, and absolutely dominate your red side of the jungle because of how long it will take you to finish camps.

I'm not denying that hes fun, I'm just saying especially without smite, hes really easy to shut down


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SweetSheets

Member

04-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niceguydan8 View Post
Please use smite when you jungle.

Your team will rage at you if the following happens: (and they will happen if you continue to jungle without smite)
-Dragon gets stolen
-Baron gets stolen
-You get counter jungled and behind because you clear much slower than the enemy jungler.

A decent jungler will see that you don't have smite, and absolutely dominate your red side of the jungle because of how long it will take you to finish camps.

I'm not denying that hes fun, I'm just saying especially without smite, hes really easy to shut down
It's a playstyle that works for me. I won't deny that your points have merits, but warding and strong ganks are as I repeat again, the playstyle that works for me. I'm not saying that everybody should try the same playstyle, copy my build, or do things the same way as me. Such is preposterous as this game is built around being entirely customizable, including the way you play. I'm not saying I'm right, nor am I saying you're wrong. I'm just saying what I do works for me, and that nobody should be told how to play because what they have might end up working in their favor. Variations such as AD Kennen would never have arose if it weren't for players trying new things. You know?


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Niceguydan8

Senior Member

04-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSheets View Post
It's a playstyle that works for me. I won't deny that your points have merits, but warding and strong ganks are as I repeat again, the playstyle that works for me. I'm not saying that everybody should try the same playstyle, copy my build, or do things the same way as me. Such is preposterous as this game is built around being entirely customizable, including the way you play. I'm not saying I'm right, nor am I saying you're wrong. I'm just saying what I do works for me, and that nobody should be told how to play because what they have might end up working in their favor. Variations such as AD Kennen would never have arose if it weren't for players trying new things. You know?
Ehhh...but even mediocre warding will stop the "strong" ganks. And the warding will have to begin at level 1 to prevent counter jungling when a jungler has no smite. Usually that doesn't happen.

What summoner do you use instead of smite? I don't think fiddle needs ignite with his strong ganks, nor would he need exhaust since he has fear. Flash/Smite makes the most sense to me.

I don't want to tell people how to play, but I also don't want people playing in a way that they will eventually lose for a reason that is blatantly obvious. I just want everyone to get better But I will tell you, the way you are playing might work for you now, but as you get better and play more, you will get counter jungled really hard and get way behind. So I strongly advise using smite.


People play AD kennen and ahri because (well kennen at least) makes some sense and can somewhat justify it. His W scales with attack damage. I personally think both are dumb, and the only reason it worked well is because it was a pro player using AD kennen. I've went up against many of AD kennens who have simply failed. When have you seen any pro jungle without smite? There is a reason why every single pro uses it every single game.


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SweetSheets

Member

04-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niceguydan8 View Post
Ehhh...but even mediocre warding will stop the "strong" ganks. And the warding will have to begin at level 1 to prevent counter jungling when a jungler has no smite. Usually that doesn't happen.

What summoner do you use instead of smite? I don't think fiddle needs ignite with his strong ganks, nor would he need exhaust since he has fear. Flash/Smite makes the most sense to me.

I don't want to tell people how to play, but I also don't want people playing in a way that they will eventually lose for a reason that is blatantly obvious. I just want everyone to get better But I will tell you, the way you are playing might work for you now, but as you get better and play more, you will get counter jungled really hard and get way behind. So I strongly advise using smite.


People play AD kennen and ahri because (well kennen at least) makes some sense and can somewhat justify it. His W scales with attack damage. I personally think both are dumb, and the only reason it worked well is because it was a pro player using AD kennen. I've went up against many of AD kennens who have simply failed. When have you seen any pro jungle without smite? There is a reason why every single pro uses it every single game.
I mean, I only have ~900 games played total, and ~80 of which are with fiddlesticks this season. And with Fiddle jungle I have ~75% win rate, and at the Elo level I sit, most people are pretty confident to listen and provide the support needed for my build. "Defend blue while I kill it and then I'll walk around and lifedrain spam ****."
"Taking red, AD Bot come take it if you want."
"Taking dragon, bot come sit in bush and see if someone is stupid enough to gank fiddle a support and an AD and Fiddlesticks."

It requires a bit more coordination but most teams will listen at the level I'm at. Yes smite stealing is still a possibility, but jungling with ignite over smite can be huge for late game ganks. It's my playstyle, and I understand where you come from, and at higher Elos, if this proves to be a detrimental playstyle, I will do as players do in the LoL community and figure out another playstyle that will work better. I totally get where you're coming from, it's just that what I do works for me. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the 60 wins I have this season and the 20 losses say otherwise.


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Niceguydan8

Senior Member

04-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSheets View Post
"Taking dragon, bot come sit in bush and see if someone is stupid enough to gank fiddle a support and an AD and Fiddlesticks."
Continue with what you are doing then.

But what I just quoted says a lot. I'm not sure what elo you are but the enemy team should have that dragon warded, and more often than not it will be anywhere from 2-4 people converging on you, in which case it would not be "someone being stupid enough to gank fiddle"(although they aren't ganking you at dragon, they are contesting dragon) as opposed to "that fiddlesticks is stupid enough to try dragon with only a support helping him out?(or only ad, but what i'm saying is that its 2 people while one is scouting in the brush)"

Also, are the 60 wins-20 loses in ranked? If so, that's 80 games and fiddle isn't even in your top played champion list. If they are in normals, how are you sure that it is indeed your real record? EDIT: Saw you used ~80 games, so disregard this.


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