Balancing TT

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realgirl

Senior Member

03-31-2012

Dragon is ridiculously pivotal to winning TT. It gives gold equivalent to destroying two towers every 6 minutes, plus a buff that often turns teamfights early game. The funniest thing is that the dragon's HP is on the low side, so fast junglers with wriggles (like Udyr) can solo it at 6.

This tips the favor of champion picks hard in TDPS favor, but also allows for teams to dominate quickly and snowball out of control once they have their first dragon. Basically, killing dragon is the most important part of TT, not even destroying towers or inhibitors is as important (at least, until your gold margin is sufficiently higher than your opponent's).

I think this is poor game design. Dragon in SR gives similar gold acorss the entire team, but 280 gold for 3 champions in TT is much too high for Dragon's difficulty. That's the same advantage as grabbing Baron every time he's up.

However, there is also a negative aspect to this. The dragon's buff isn't strong enough or have a long enough duration to turn the tide of team fights late game like Baron Buff is. TT is a turtle fest, the defensive death-laser and spawn point are far too close to the nexus/towers. The rate at which you regen is on the slow side, but it's fast enough to make turtling easy. It's also slow enough to be quite annoying in the early game.

I think moving the spawn point back a far distance and shortening the autokill laser's range would be best. You can then increase the regeneration speed.

Finally, the way TT is set up - champions with wall-crossing spells dominate way too strongly. There are way too many areas where flash, blink and teleport spells allow players to not only easily juke, but jungle as well. It is far too easy for champion top lane to run off and recover health from jungle minions by traversing through walls. This makes shutting down champions like Tryndamere problematic.

Oh, and I should mention that it is far too easy to backdoor in TT. Teams with wall-closing skills paralyze the other team when the final tower is down.

What's wrong with TT is that it's a turtle-fest - you can easily turtle and it's too hard to penetrate your turtle (usually, you're forced to abuse the bad design of TT to win games and break an enemy team's turtle, rather than just "fairly" beating them in a teamfight). Dragon is worth too much gold for its difficulty - its difficulty should be comparable to Baron (requiring at least 2 champions to kill) and its buff be more game-changing, or, its gold cost should be reduced. Finally, champions with teleport spells have far too much mobility and domination in TT, walls in some areas should be thickened.

In the current scheme of things, TT games always play out this way:

1) 15 minute surrender because of early ganks
2) 25 minute surrender because they got 3 dragons and we couldn't get there fast enough or control the map due to high mobility junglers (wards don't tend counter this)
3) 40-60 minute nexus kill after a turtle fest on the otherteam, where we couldn't kill a single inhib, basically just farming dragon for that long until the gold gap becomes significant enough
4) 40-60 minute nexus kill - the turtling team picked off one of your champions and backdoored your base and won (usually ignoring the pathetically weak super minions that spawn)

As for making the dragon buff more meaningful, I'd suggest it make champion spells and autoattacks deal additional damage equivalent to a % of the target's max HP -- this would make tanks less supreme in TT.


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realgirl

Senior Member

03-31-2012

bump


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Merich

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Senior Member

04-02-2012

This is related more to the title than your actual thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway...

I think giving TT a global buff like they have in dominion would help with balance. It's a simple fix that would not require too much time to implement (compared to other solutions).

Not sure what all would be encompassed in the buff (suggestions?), but I think it should at least include a small mana regen buff.


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SleepyDeath

Senior Member

04-02-2012

i feel real bad for you realgirl. if those are the only types of TT games you play then you must be terribad. if someone is jungling then the 2v1 lane should be able to easily push down a tower or two and force their jungler to help in lane, negating their advantage. if the 2v1 cant dominate, then wow... terribad


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fazisi

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Senior Member

04-02-2012

Jumping walls is not an issue. If your Nexus Tower is destroyed, you very well be scared of backdooring (even though in this case, you have already destroyed at least one lane of towers and inhibitor, so I don't see how this constitutes as backdooring).

Currently, dragon IS the counter to turtling. If you give everyone a worthwhile incentive to actually leave their base every 5 minutes, it will discourage inactivity.

Wards do counter mobile junglers. You just are not placing them at the appropriate spots. Sure, having a ward directly over dragon is useful for seeing if they are fighting dragon and giving you opportunity to steal is. However, placing wards in the bush beside the wolf/wraith rune or in the circular bush beside their top tower allow you to see if a team is heading towards dragon, giving you more time to reach it and counter. Also, while it may be hard to get the first dragon versus some stupidly powerful junglers, you should be aware of when dragon was killed and be ready in 5 minutes to contest the next one.

@SleepyDeath Thank you for your contribution but do not discourage the use of junglers in TT.


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realgirl

Senior Member

04-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyDeath View Post
i feel real bad for you realgirl. if those are the only types of TT games you play then you must be terribad
That's funny, because I'm often the reason the match ends in 15 minutes from strong early game ganks. Poppy is so ridiculous early game, I can tower dive TT's pathetic towers and dart back into a bush with impunity.

I did imply that Dragon counters turtling, but that it does a poor job at it. Early game it's simply too hard to stop a fast enemy jungler from nabbing it - they don't even need smite, just wiggles and attack speed. I don't understand why the Dragon in TT doesn't debuff attackspeed like in SR. Late game dragon doesn't do enough to break turtling by TDPS and it is almost impossible to contest a lategame dragon because lategame TDPS shred it in seconds. Even if you ward in the places mentioned by others, you have to already be within walking distance of dragon to contest it.

And instead of calling me terribad, how about you refute my arguments instead? I'd like to be proven wrong, or get Riot to balance TT - either would please me. But, Oh wait. That's right. Most people on these forums just attack the poster instead of their arguments.