Which matchmaking 'issue' is the most important to you? (See post for more details!)

1) AFKs in Champion Select Lobby 4,844 36.32%
2) Duo-Queue Elo Disparities in Ranked 999 7.49%
3) Skilled Ranked Players in Normal Modes 657 4.93%
4) Premade Matching 663 4.97%
5) Transitioning from Normal to Ranked Mode 1,337 10.02%
6) Free to Play Champions in Ranked Mode 799 5.99%
7) Random Champions in Ranked Mode 643 4.82%
8) Provisional Matches in Ranked 714 5.35%
9) Duo Queue Prevalence in Ranked 416 3.12%
10) Level Disparities 637 4.78%
11) Team Margin of Victory 1,629 12.21%
Voters: 13338. You may not vote on this poll

After Hours with Matchmaking and Lyte

First Riot Post
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Sorian

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Recruiter

11-02-2012

Lyte, can we please get an update on whether or not placement matches are going to actually be placement matches. I'm currently in the 12xx elo and I am tired of seeing people with 1-2 wins on my team during ranked.


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rivanor

Junior Member

11-05-2012

TL;DR summary: ELO hell is real, I was stuck in it for a long time and it took me over 300 games to get out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings guys,

I've currently played 376 ranked games. Lyte has said (in this forum) that most players' ELO will be settled around 200 games, and worst case, around 300 games. I am here to report that my ELO does not yet appear to have "settled" and I am currently at the highest ELO (1341 as of now) that I've ever been since I had a mere 17 games under my belt.

Here is my story:

When I first started playing ranked, I was winning so my ELO went up. At one point I recall having an ELO of 1350 and a record of 12-5 (whether this is accurate or not I cannot say).

At this point, when I would queue up in ranked games, I would be first pick. This made me uncomfortable because I was new enough to ranked that I did not want to be responsible for picks/bans and picking first so I would pick support players instead of trying to carry the team.

I then proceeded to lose literally 20 games in a row through a) not trying to carry, b) just some really bad luck, and maybe c) just to see how broken the system was to allow me to experience such a massive losing streak. I also did not know that dodging queue would reduce ELO so I dodged more than once to avoid bad games. I think I hit a little below 900 ELO at this point.

Then I finally won and I thought "Ok, I guess this is my real ELO." But then as I was playing, I started to think maybe I had made a horrible mistake by not caring about my ELO. Because back when I was first playing ranked, the games were not "too hard" for me, in other words, I felt in my heart that I belonged at the high 1200's at the very least. But now at the <900 ELO mark, I found it quite difficult to consistently gets wins.

My strategy for picking champions was basically whatever the team needed. I was a good citizen.

But this wasn't working.

After a while I realized that if our ADC sucked, we would tend to always lose late game. So I started playing kog'maw every time. This was not exactly super successful as my record with kog'maw is currently a little under .500 (I am 15-16 with kog). I also started adding friends from my teams (and the enemy team) who I felt were better than the current ELO and I would try to duo with them. Duo'ing with friends and picking a specific role (such as ADC) seemed to be enough to get me to the 1000-1100 ELO limit.

This is where I think the true ELO hell exists (from 1000-1100). I spent a VERY long time trying to get above 1100 ELO and I just COULD NOT do it. I had over 200 games under my belt, maybe even closer to 250, and I was reading on these forums (from Lyte) that I was probably at my real ELO by now. I did not believe this for one second and I was determined to get my ELO back over 1300 to prove this wrong (and I have done so by the way hehe). The problem with this range (as I have said before) is being matched with and against NEW PLAYERS. It was all too common for a new player singlehandedly deciding the game for either my team or the opposing team (ie by performing so poorly).

What did I finally do to "break out" ? I observed that a) I am much better with tanky champs than squishes like ADC, b) there are a few champs that are very hard to deal with at this ELO, namely Mordekaiser and Singed and c) that I am especially good at Riven, and d) Dr Mundo fits my style if I am forced to jungle.

So instead of trying to play "whatever the team needs", I will almost always pick one of those 4 champs no matter what.

So if I am forced to pick early because no one will trade picks with me, I go Morde or Riven. (Morde does not get counterpicked very often at this ELO for some reason so it is a freebie)

If I am forced to jungle, I go Mundo.

If I know who the enemy top laner is, then I will always consider Singed as I feel like he is way too good to not be picked.

I recently picked up Leona for support since she is tanky (again fitting my playstyle).

I also pull out Yorick from time to time as wildcard if I don't know who else to pick and just want a safe lane.

Instead of trying to learn many champs, I've consolidated down to just these 4 or 5 champs. And it's working out a lot better for me.

Why do I post all of this?

To make a strong case that ELO hell is real, it exists between 1000-1100, and it is caused primarily by new players vastly influencing the outcome of games.

To also make a case that it has taken me _376_ ranked games to get back to the ELO where I feel like I belong. Not 200, not even 300. Even if you argue that I am just on a lucky winning streak (winning my last 5 ranked games), it would be a stretch to say that my true ELO should be between 1000-1100 where I spent so much time.

And finally, to give some tips on how to break out of ELO hell to others who may be struggling themselves. My #1 tip is: "PLAY MORDE"


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Flennel

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Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
In a perfect world, if players continued behaving as they currently do, then yes, Normal Elo would be a great seeding parameter for Ranked play.

However, the odds of players making new Level 30 accounts, going premade 3-5s to carry up to excessive high Normal Elo to start at a high seed in Ranked is actually pretty high.
What about only taking into account solo queueing matches? So if the person plays with friends it does not get counted into seeding. In case that someone plays exclusively with friends (or any other "not enough info" case), they will be seeded to 1200 ELO.

It does take more analysis of games, but will also provide accurate results.


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Ephruz

Member

11-12-2012

The biggest issue I've had in Ranked is dealing with people who hog a role and aren't willing to sacrifice their role. This usually happens when support is left open (even though support is a fairly fun role, 5 out of my 10 most played champs are supports which all have fairly decent win ratios.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rivanor View Post
TL;DR summary: ELO hell is real, I was stuck in it for a long time and it took me over 300 games to get out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings guys,

I've currently played 376 ranked games. Lyte has said (in this forum) that most players' ELO will be settled around 200 games, and worst case, around 300 games. I am here to report that my ELO does not yet appear to have "settled" and I am currently at the highest ELO (1341 as of now) that I've ever been since I had a mere 17 games under my belt.

Here is my story:

When I first started playing ranked, I was winning so my ELO went up. At one point I recall having an ELO of 1350 and a record of 12-5 (whether this is accurate or not I cannot say).

At this point, when I would queue up in ranked games, I would be first pick. This made me uncomfortable because I was new enough to ranked that I did not want to be responsible for picks/bans and picking first so I would pick support players instead of trying to carry the team.

I then proceeded to lose literally 20 games in a row through a) not trying to carry, b) just some really bad luck, and maybe c) just to see how broken the system was to allow me to experience such a massive losing streak. I also did not know that dodging queue would reduce ELO so I dodged more than once to avoid bad games. I think I hit a little below 900 ELO at this point.

Then I finally won and I thought "Ok, I guess this is my real ELO." But then as I was playing, I started to think maybe I had made a horrible mistake by not caring about my ELO. Because back when I was first playing ranked, the games were not "too hard" for me, in other words, I felt in my heart that I belonged at the high 1200's at the very least. But now at the <900 ELO mark, I found it quite difficult to consistently gets wins.

My strategy for picking champions was basically whatever the team needed. I was a good citizen.

But this wasn't working.

After a while I realized that if our ADC sucked, we would tend to always lose late game. So I started playing kog'maw every time. This was not exactly super successful as my record with kog'maw is currently a little under .500 (I am 15-16 with kog). I also started adding friends from my teams (and the enemy team) who I felt were better than the current ELO and I would try to duo with them. Duo'ing with friends and picking a specific role (such as ADC) seemed to be enough to get me to the 1000-1100 ELO limit.

This is where I think the true ELO hell exists (from 1000-1100). I spent a VERY long time trying to get above 1100 ELO and I just COULD NOT do it. I had over 200 games under my belt, maybe even closer to 250, and I was reading on these forums (from Lyte) that I was probably at my real ELO by now. I did not believe this for one second and I was determined to get my ELO back over 1300 to prove this wrong (and I have done so by the way hehe). The problem with this range (as I have said before) is being matched with and against NEW PLAYERS. It was all too common for a new player singlehandedly deciding the game for either my team or the opposing team (ie by performing so poorly).

What did I finally do to "break out" ? I observed that a) I am much better with tanky champs than squishes like ADC, b) there are a few champs that are very hard to deal with at this ELO, namely Mordekaiser and Singed and c) that I am especially good at Riven, and d) Dr Mundo fits my style if I am forced to jungle.

So instead of trying to play "whatever the team needs", I will almost always pick one of those 4 champs no matter what.

So if I am forced to pick early because no one will trade picks with me, I go Morde or Riven. (Morde does not get counterpicked very often at this ELO for some reason so it is a freebie)

If I am forced to jungle, I go Mundo.

If I know who the enemy top laner is, then I will always consider Singed as I feel like he is way too good to not be picked.

I recently picked up Leona for support since she is tanky (again fitting my playstyle).

I also pull out Yorick from time to time as wildcard if I don't know who else to pick and just want a safe lane.

Instead of trying to learn many champs, I've consolidated down to just these 4 or 5 champs. And it's working out a lot better for me.

Why do I post all of this?

To make a strong case that ELO hell is real, it exists between 1000-1100, and it is caused primarily by new players vastly influencing the outcome of games.

To also make a case that it has taken me _376_ ranked games to get back to the ELO where I feel like I belong. Not 200, not even 300. Even if you argue that I am just on a lucky winning streak (winning my last 5 ranked games), it would be a stretch to say that my true ELO should be between 1000-1100 where I spent so much time.

And finally, to give some tips on how to break out of ELO hell to others who may be struggling themselves. My #1 tip is: "PLAY MORDE"
I think Silver as Riot has established it for Season 3 is where elo hell is. 40-50% of players are at this skill level or above. It's also pretty hellish around Elo milestones (1150, 1500, 1850, 2200)
The only true thing I could say about getting out of Bronze is that I learned how to play the game better and carried myself with the same characters for each role. Before then I sucked and would just play champions. Generally that's how you should learn to play the game; by picking ONE character for each role that fits your style and playing those endlessly. That's where you did right, because once you understand the role with that character, you'll be able to branch out.


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Sk1n J0b

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Senior Member

11-12-2012

Hey Lyte,

I was wondering if you guys have ever considered adjusting elo loss when you have leavers or teammates with consistently high ping for ranked matches(the people with the high ping should lose the normal amount of ELO as to avoid exploitation). I know it's a team game but being punished for other people's lack of common courtesy seems a bit unfair (well more discouraging if anything) at times.


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St Viers

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post

2) Transitioning from Normal to Ranked Mode
Currently, we do not do a great job of educating players on the transition from Normal to Ranked Modes. What would players like to see here? What should the expectations of Ranked be? For example, Ranked could be "Bring your best, every single game!"

3) Provisional Matches in Ranked
When a player joins Ranked for the first time, the system starts them at 1200 Elo and begins their "placement matches." Unlucky strings of losses or lucky streaks of wins can propel a player into an Elo tier they do not belong in. Alternatively, players generally do not like playing with or against players in their placement matches and seeing they have only 1-9 wins.
One critical thing to inform players new to ranked is double-sided:
1) That they should be able to play more than 1 role, and can't demand to go a certain role because they want to.
2) That if there is someone saying they can't play a certain role, you should maybe consider playing that role even if you don't like to, to give your team the best chance of winning (as opposed to it starting a fight, and gg call/reporting asked for before minions spawn)

As to Provisional matches, would it be possible to simply have your ranked matches (at least at 800-1300 elo or so) be also sorted by number of played games in addition to elo, *or* have ranking matches only be played by people still unranked, and you need a certain number of games played before you are let out into the full ranked world?


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DriedPrunes

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Provisional Matches in Ranked. I know this might seem arrogant but I for one feel that I do not belong within my elo range. I've been climbing steadily for my first 4 to 5 matches then I've made the mistake playing on the weekend with afkers and trolls that cost me 5 wins making stuck within 1100's to 1200's


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Goumindong

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by rivanor View Post
What did I finally do to "break out" ? I observed that a) I am much better with tanky champs than squishes like ADC, b) there are a few champs that are very hard to deal with at this ELO, namely Mordekaiser and Singed and c) that I am especially good at Riven, and d) Dr Mundo fits my style if I am forced to jungle.
So what you're saying is that you were playing champions you were not good with and that this was causing you to not win games. Then you "got better" (I.E. realized there were certain champions you were better with and started playing them) and started winning games?

This is supposed to convince me that ELO hell exists?


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Tack22

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

There still needs to be a system in place to deal with uncooperative and afk players during champion select. Somebody else shouldn't have to 'take the bullet' and dodge for them, and still be unable to report them afterwards.

Making a thread about this anyway.


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Boats

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Senior Member

11-24-2012

Not enough number 9 votes. Riot has handled the ones with the most votes it seems. But they still haven't removed duo queue.