all these reports

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youcandobetter

Junior Member

3 Weeks Ago

So I just finished a game where I played support. My adc literally sat motionless under our turret for several seconds to minutes at a time and did not type a word to anyone, during or after the game. They walked away from farm or last hitting countless times intentionally, even when the cannon minions were being hit by our turret and it was obvious when to hit. I was imagining someone sitting with a blank stare on their face, because that's what it felt like. So they gave FB, and when they were walking back to the lane after they came back, they stopped at the inner turret for 30 seconds or so and kept pressing B to return home, probably 6-8 times, before continuing to walk back to the lane. When they got back to lane, again they didn't communicate with anyone in any way, and still would not farm. Our top laner kept berating me from 4-5 min in, as if it was somehow my fault that the adc didn't care about getting gold from farming. At the end of the game, I got reported. I am on chat restricted, and have no clue what basis people use for reports, but I imagine it had to be our top laner placing blame. Why do I continue to receive these stupid reports in game where I have done nothing wrong and am not even able to communicate enough to trash talk other people anyway, even if I wanted to? So I get reported for not picking up the slack from an unskilled adc and my chat restriction gets lengthened? This system is bogus.


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Shelzin

Senior Member

3 Weeks Ago

Macro: I'll just give you the Riot response. The highlighting is mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slumber Jack View Post
Hi there!

I get this question a lot and I think this would be a good opportunity for me to clear up how the new automated chat restrictions work, as it's catching a lot of players off-guard that they're being punished immediately after finishing all of their chat restricted games.

At the time the Tribunal was taken down, if you had what was a relatively poor standing with the Tribunal we would issue you a chat restriction. The worse your standing was, the worse the chat restriction.

Once you've finished all of your chat restrictions, we basically take another look at your account and see where you stand with the would-be Tribunal. If you still have a relatively poor standing with it, we issue more chat-restricted games. What you'll basically see is this: if you never improve, you'll be hit with a lot more chat-restricted games and you'll find yourself always chat-restricted. If you get better, you will see less and less chat-restricted games being issued.

A way to tell if you're improving would be this: You finish your chat-restricted games, get issued 20 games. You finish those, you get issued 17. That would mean in the course of those 20 games, you improved but your standing with the would-be Tribunal is still not very good. You're ever-so-slowly moving in the right direction, though.

I hope this clears it up a bit!


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youcandobetter

Junior Member

3 Weeks Ago

I've read all that before, and although it THEORIZES about how the chat restrictions are reduced or increased over time (which I think is completely false based on experience), it STILL doesn't address the issue that there is no possible way I was (truthfully on their part) reported for behavior or language 99% of the time, with games like the one I illustrated where I only spoke to helpfully point out that she wasn't getting farm, and needed to for gold. People will assume if you had a buff stolen you are a bad jungle; if you were bot with a bad lane partner; you're also a bad lane partner; if you kept getting ganked 4 v 2 by stealth champs, then you brought it on yourself because you're bad. You and others repeating that reports aren't as frequent as one would think, or people say it but don't really mean it and don't follow through, etc., does not make it true. As long as people abuse the report feature, it will be a flawed system, and they will never stop abusing it because everyone naturally thinks they are right no matter what. I rarely report for anything other than entire game AFK. People getting chat restrictions increasing when they already have chat restrictions is absurd, when they are already on limited communication. I have been completely silent for games and gotten trashed/abused by other players and reported afterward, so I know the consequences don't line up with what you are saying. Being "in good standing" with the past Tribunal system means what, never having received a report? I've gotten reported just for being the odd man out with 4 premade players on voice chat with each other that forget someone else is relying on in game communication. You know as well as I do it's abused 24/7.


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Shelzin

Senior Member

3 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by youcandobetter View Post
I've read all that before, and although it THEORIZES about how the chat restrictions are reduced or increased over time (which I think is completely false based on experience), it STILL doesn't address the issue that there is no possible way I was (truthfully on their part) reported for behavior or language 99% of the time, with games like the one I illustrated where I only spoke to helpfully point out that she wasn't getting farm, and needed to for gold. People will assume if you had a buff stolen you are a bad jungle; if you were bot with a bad lane partner; you're also a bad lane partner; if you kept getting ganked 4 v 2 by stealth champs, then you brought it on yourself because you're bad. You and others repeating that reports aren't as frequent as one would think, or people say it but don't really mean it and don't follow through, etc., does not make it true. As long as people abuse the report feature, it will be a flawed system, and they will never stop abusing it because everyone naturally thinks they are right no matter what. I rarely report for anything other than entire game AFK. People getting chat restrictions increasing when they already have chat restrictions is absurd, when they are already on limited communication. I have been completely silent for games and gotten trashed/abused by other players and reported afterward, so I know the consequences don't line up with what you are saying. Being "in good standing" with the past Tribunal system means what, never having received a report? I've gotten reported just for being the odd man out with 4 premade players on voice chat with each other that forget someone else is relying on in game communication. You know as well as I do it's abused 24/7.
I read the block text the first time... Now I'm more tired than I was. So... *shrugs*

Macro

Shelzin:

I large block of text is hard to read. If you want it to be read by a large audience to attain a goal, and I assume you do considering where you are, then it would be wise to make it easier to read. If you aren't going to take the time to make it legible, why should I take the extra time to try to read it?

Ulanopo:

The amount of effort you put into your writing is directly proportional to the amount of respect you have for the reader.

I still don't think that utilizing the Enter key is too much to ask, but maybe that's because I come from a different generation of public education. We were taught that sloppy grammar and composition are an unrecoverable distraction from the objective of making a point. It remains an issue of basic respect; you buy my time by demonstrating that you're worth it.


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youcandobetter

Junior Member

2 Weeks Ago

What pathetic responses.

I used unbroken English as well as proper grammar and spelling.

Is this how you would treat someone who may not use English as a first language, and is bound to have real errors in their usage?

That seems racist.

The entire paragraph was related to the same narrow topic, report feature abuse, so there is no need to break it up.

Copy and pasting programmed responses to avoid addressing real issues isn't any better than my supposed grouping of too many words into one paragraph for your admitted limited comprehension.

The original topic was about report feature abuse, and how it is undeniable that this abuse is still leading to time bans and chat restrictions that are unwarranted.

Your programmed copy/paste responses, although standard mumbo jumbo used to shush people, do not thoroughly address the problem.

There, I used your preferred format that you can understand for this response, I'm guessing you won't like it any better than a block of text.

More space between lines of text certainly helps me to read words from left to right and then top to bottom so much better.

I feel like I've improved myself so much during this discussion; thanks so much for your helpful sidetracking of my original concern to improve your own perceived self image.


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Shelzin

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by youcandobetter View Post
What pathetic responses.

I used unbroken English as well as proper grammar and spelling.
But you didn't use the "Enter" key. Youcandobetter.

Quote:
Is this how you would treat someone who may not use English as a first language, and is bound to have real errors in their usage?

That seems racist.
I don't think you understand the word. Race has nothing to do with it.

Quote:
The entire paragraph was related to the same narrow topic, report feature abuse, so there is no need to break it up.
I told you why I didn't read it. Chances are it's why no one else bothered to reply. If you don't want to break it up it's fine by me. It doesn't hurt me at all.

Quote:
Copy and pasting programmed responses to avoid addressing real issues isn't any better than my supposed grouping of too many words into one paragraph for your admitted limited comprehension.
That's a matter of opinion. If you are looking for feedback, which you obviously are, that information I gave you was helpful.

Quote:
There, I used your preferred format that you can understand for this response, I'm guessing you won't like it any better than a block of text.
Unlike the last post.... I read it this time. That's a start.

Quote:
More space between lines of text certainly helps me to read words from left to right and then top to bottom so much better.

I feel like I've improved myself so much during this discussion; thanks so much for your helpful sidetracking of my original concern to improve your own perceived self image.
My self image hasn't changed at all actually. You however seem to like me less. That's alright.


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Jubbinaut

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

Guess I'll stick my nose in here. Gonna break this up and address it in small chunks, because the wall of text makes my eyes and head hurt too much to handle it any other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youcandobetter View Post
I've read all that before, and although it THEORIZES about how the chat restrictions are reduced or increased over time (which I think is completely false based on experience), it STILL doesn't address the issue that there is no possible way I was (truthfully on their part) reported for behavior or language 99% of the time, with games like the one I illustrated where I only spoke to helpfully point out that she wasn't getting farm, and needed to for gold.
Okay, first, and only because you made a comment about your grammar earlier... this is one hell of a run-on sentence. Secondly, when a member of a group that developed a system explains to you how that system works, they are not theorizing. If God stepped down from on high to explain black holes, would you say to Him "Yeah, I heard that before, and although it THEORIZES about how black holes work, it still doesn't address the issue of spaghettification?"

Quote:
People will assume if you had a buff stolen you are a bad jungle; if you were bot with a bad lane partner; you're also a bad lane partner; if you kept getting ganked 4 v 2 by stealth champs, then you brought it on yourself because you're bad.
Too many semi-colons. I've heard assumptions like this, but I don't pay much attention to them. People who complain about how "bad" their team-mates are tend to be fairly poor players themselves. If it gets bad enough, I personally tend to mute them, and I am always sure to report them after the game. Meanwhile, I have my farm and lane and what-have-you to focus on.
Quote:
You and others repeating that reports aren't as frequent as one would think, or people say it but don't really mean it and don't follow through, etc., does not make it true.
You telling us it isn't true doesn't make it false. Many people who declare they will report someone never actually do so. Interestingly, I often found games in the Tribunal where someone would demand in /all chat for people to report the player the case was against. One would think that the player who requested that would at least offer a report themselves. Often, the only reports shown on those games were from enemies.

To be fair, this is anecdotal, but it's still interesting, I feel.
Quote:
As long as people abuse the report feature, it will be a flawed system, and they will never stop abusing it because everyone naturally thinks they are right no matter what.
Fortunately, the report system has any number of features specifically designed to deal with report abuse. First: reports are weighted, which means that the more a player makes false reports, the less the system cares about their reports. Second: Reports don't force punishments, they trigger reviews, meaning that those reports are validated by a separate system (and often by a human). False punishes may happen, but they are vanishingly rare.
Quote:
I rarely report for anything other than entire game AFK. People getting chat restrictions increasing when they already have chat restrictions is absurd, when they are already on limited communication. I have been completely silent for games and gotten trashed/abused by other players and reported afterward, so I know the consequences don't line up with what you are saying. Being "in good standing" with the past Tribunal system means what, never having received a report? I've gotten reported just for being the odd man out with 4 premade players on voice chat with each other that forget someone else is relying on in game communication. You know as well as I do it's abused 24/7.
As for the rest of this... here's the best information we have:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulanopo View Post
I just keep getting more chat restrictions. The system must be broken.

We are now aware of three reasons why your chat restriction might be extended. Keep in mind that Riot will not tell you which of these reasons was specific to your circumstances without you putting in a support ticket and that the TBI/PB volunteers have no access to this information.

[1] Riot is using the restrictions to provide feedback on whether or not you are improving enough. (link)

Once you've finished all of your chat restrictions, we basically take another look at your account and see where you stand with the would-be Tribunal. If you still have a relatively poor standing with it, we issue more chat-restricted games. What you'll basically see is this: if you never improve, you'll be hit with a lot more chat-restricted games and you'll find yourself always chat-restricted. If you get better, you will see less and less chat-restricted games being issued.

A way to tell if you're improving would be this: You finish your chat-restricted games, get issued 20 games. You finish those, you get issued 17. That would mean in the course of those 20 games, you improved but your standing with the would-be Tribunal is still not very good. You're ever-so-slowly moving in the right direction, though.


[2] It is possible that you are "working off" a large number of reports from while the Tribunal was malfunctioning (link)
Some players on EUW may have slightly suboptimal experiences with the system because the system and Player Support will keep an account chat restricted until they have definitively reached a 'neutral' to 'positive' standing; for many players, because they accrued quite a lot bad behaviors when the Tribunal was having trouble, they basically earned multiple months of penalties so it might take players quite a few games to finally get into neutral territory again.
There is no confirmation that this is true for other regions, but it seems possible.

[3] The system was unable to observe sufficient change in your behavior and applied an extension so that it can collect more data. This is more likely in cases where highly toxic players decided to respond to their restriction by not speaking at all. (link)
If the system is unsure about your current standing (because you never talked in your past sets of games, or you showed both positive and negative patterns of behavior in your games), you'll receive a few more chat restrictions so the system can collect more data.
Please keep in mind that this policy is highly controversial, as it obligates players to do more than just not use the chat system in order to remove their restriction. You may wish to read the rest of Lyte's posts in that thread for further information and explanation.
There's questions up in the air, and as this quote indicates, it's not a system that we are particularly pleased with, but it's what we have to deal with right now.

On the positive side of it, it's only temporary, and there is a lot of useful data that can be pulled from it that may well improve the hell out of the new Tribunal system when it's finally put back in place. In the meantime, unfortunately, the best we can say is be as positive as possible to get yourself out from under the restrictions.


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Railios

Senior Member

2 Weeks Ago

Got restricted after months of not playing and played one game with a 3 man premade. They reported because the adc was playing like the bronze he was (getting destroyed by the golds opposing him) and they decided to harass the support (me) the entire game as well as the other team. After the game instantly I get the report warning than I am chat restricted.

I never talked unless spoken to and never said anything that was a lie or unrelated to what happened in the game. But for the next 20 games I couldnt speak as this happened again in many of them and the ban was slapped on again with the cry "this nami wont communicate."


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youcandobetter

Junior Member

2 Weeks Ago

Thank you Jub for at least being courteous. That is a lot of good information there.

I realize it's not a perfect system and there will be some wait time getting kinks worked out. However, I've read through several threads where it's as if many "higher ups" are in denial that these bans are happening to people that don't deserve them. I believe there is plenty of proof to the contrary.

I apologize for grouping too much text together and not breaking up sentences more. I guess I start typing an idea and end up trailing into more things I thought of at the time.

I work in two separate industries, computers/electronics and construction. In both worlds, employees or contractors find every way possible to put down there colleagues and claim others are making mistakes or in the wrong. Most that I observe appear to be trying to increase their own standing or reputation by belittling or blaming others. That is the exact feeling I got from the first responder, so I didn't respond as I should have.

Critiquing someone's grammar and English on an online forum in that manner doesn't really seem to benefit anyone when it comes across as sounding that malicious. The racism comment was only to point out that if someone really did not know proper usage, they'd probably get bashed in the same way and made to seem unintelligent. That sidetracks from the original conversation in my opinion.


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youcandobetter

Junior Member

2 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Railios View Post
Got restricted after months of not playing and played one game with a 3 man premade. They reported because the adc was playing like the bronze he was (getting destroyed by the golds opposing him) and they decided to harass the support (me) the entire game as well as the other team. After the game instantly I get the report warning than I am chat restricted.

I never talked unless spoken to and never said anything that was a lie or unrelated to what happened in the game. But for the next 20 games I couldnt speak as this happened again in many of them and the ban was slapped on again with the cry "this nami wont communicate."
THIS is exactly what I am talking about. Thanks Railios.


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