FP Sion+Panth = bot lane?

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phonixsword

Junior Member

03-22-2012

Alright, so I thought I'd make a post based on my experience and idea about this bot lane composition.

1.) Defense : Sion's passive 40% chance to reduce AD by 30( this is not including armor)
Pantheon's passive, after 4 AA hits or spells he can block 1 auto attack or ez Q/gp Q his W reset's this passive. Also when Jungler's come into lane you have this double stun, also assuming your summoner spells are Flash/Exhaust and Flash/ignite.
2.) Offense : Sion and pantheon both have stuns and high burst early game especially. In this lane comp with the current meta, if either 1 of them catches and stuns the support or AD carry, they take huge damage possibly a kill or flash.
3.) Early game team fights : These 2 are VERY tanky early and sometimes late, Fighting for dragon etc with 2 tanky/dps champs is very effective. Yes support is nice they usually have some sort of CC and sustain/shield although ask yourself if it compensates for sion's burst/tankiness/CC or pantheon's burst/tankiness/CC
3.) Late game : I'm not going to assume what your lineup will be but I will assume you will have a melee jungler or melee bruiser at top/mid with this set up you will have 3 melee+2 ranged, 3 of the melee should be fairly geared assuming it's not a 1 sided game. And these 3 will be a very strong front line with A LOT of reliable CC.

Now for the positives and negatives. I can't say for 100% I've acknowledged every single one, but I will try too and feel free to add on.

By First Picking/2nd picking a Pantheon and Sion in this current meta. Obviously the enemy team is going to assume either both are the solo lanes or 1 is jungle 1 solo. So naturally someone is going to feel confident to counter. Also, Sion is more common being AP mid or Top so most people will probably assume that. Now when the enemy team chooses their champions you will be able to counter especially if they choose their solo's.
Now you go with a composition like this, Sion+ Panth bot , AD Carry top or middle whichever your AD carry feel's confident with. I'm sure everybody is familiar with Graves Q and you should know basically that the closer you're to the enemy or the closer they're too you the more dmg his Q does, and with his E he can get away from most melee this makes him viable for top lane, tristana also. And you can run an AP middle for a total of 2 AP in your team.
Now that you've read that think about if you were to vs a team with this composition.. They have an AD carry but no support? So obviously bot is going to be a kill lane... But you will not expect a Panth and a Sion right? Now this is where it get's tricky and complicated.

Mind games : When the enemy team realizes that Sion and Pantheon ARE bot, they may think well it's a kill lane but they're both melee so this might be easy right? Wrong. In order for this too work though you need to have both Sion and Pantheon at melee range of creeps, last hitting so you're pretty close to their support and AD carry, Now whenever you see the AD carry or support come closer, try to land a stun off or poke them.

If both of you coordinate properly and are able to land double stuns I 100% promise you their bot lane will be S***ing bricks. Unless the bot lane is EXTREMELY coordinated and really good you will be able to double stun their bot lane atleast once a game, or you're doing it really wrong. The other trick too this and I'm sure you have all done this if you've played botlane maybe without realizing it though, Because you both are melee this is a benefit to the "Mind game" say you throw a spear at someone and run, and they decide too harass you right? Cuz obviously you're running away as a melee there's no retaliation right? Wrong again...

If Sion or Pantheon is able to turn around and stun you. you're done. Especially if you use Exhaust/Flash Flash/Ignite Pantheon's E's passive also allows you to crit with Q,E,and Auto attacks (I'm not 100% sure if E crits) if your life is below 15% this also is why Sion and Pantheon work so well, The burst damage even at lvl 2 allows you too get almost any champ to 15% hp or less.

I've only played about 10 games with this composition and we've won all but 1? or 2? Anyways even under high stress situations, In 1 of the games it was a Janna + Ashe lane we were winning, untill Lee sin began giving ashe blue and ganked 4x within 20 minutes, however we still managed ahead of CS and kills. So even with high pressure from jungle we pulled out ahead. I'd like some feed back on this composition especially if you've tried this before, or have VS'd a composition like this.


In a nut shell, I believe that this bot lane can have early game dominance, still supply utility too the team oracles/wards, but also mess up the enemy AD carry(Not CSing, etc) So you pretty much shut down an enemy, maybe 2. Also maintaining high damage throughout middle-late. Assuming this composition cannot be out-played/zoned in a 2v2 situation with the current meta(Support/rAD)



I used to be in the high 1700s and a friend of mine is in high 1600's if any body feels like they've thought of a way too counter this 2v2, I'd appreciate if you showed us the flaws. Preferably from high ELO players ^.^ Thank you!


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Faelwyn

Senior Recruiter

03-22-2012

I might not be high ELO...actually I don't even know what mine is...But I wanna try this...

/useless post is useless


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Doctor Tam

Senior Member

03-22-2012

Is it really better to have Sion over taric? I feel tarics item independence and sustain would be more useful.


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Aceroar

Senior Member

03-22-2012

panth in bot lane makes it an auto kill lane. he has high harass etc. so teaming him up with another hard stun type works best. Best bot lane i have used panth with was a naut panth. grab, slow, damage, root, another stun etc.

Trist/corki panth works well. and just pretty much anyone with high dps and some sort of jump in, close the gap, hard stun, slow etc works well with him. Taric panth will depend on your taric. If he is the support type who just want to sit back and heal and only stun when a gank comes in, it ain't going to work. just make sure your taric knows to play agressive. another problem with taric is his dps is fairly low. so gettin early kills if difficult if panth has to do all the damage. works better if another dps type character.

so yes it is better to have a sion over taric.

another thing to keep in mind is what support the other team is running. if they pick someone like nunu, janna, lulu, then your in good shape. all of these supports dont have a heal so doing a bit of harass and then jumping on the ad carry is beautiful. However if they pick soraka, sona, taric, getting those early kills might take a bit more work because of the heal sustain.

best lanes with panth on bot are as follows (imo)
tristana
corki
naut
blitzcrank
morde (high harass damage)
sion
xin
leona
vayne (VERY skill dependent)
shen


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Rawrful

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Senior Member

03-22-2012

I've done Sion/Panth before as a trollish kill lane. We also warded the enemy blue. We split farm and split kills and after a few kills we were so far ahead that Sion could farm 1v2 with ease, so Panth could jump on middle or the enemy jungler any time it seemed like a good opportunity. After Sion gets a Needlessly Large Rod (Or a soul stealer) and upgraded boots, he can start roaming too, giving Panth a chance to farm.

Works reasonably well. You just put a phys carry with an escape (Ezreal, Trist, Corki) top, normal mage mid, and whatever jungler fits your comp.


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phonixsword

Junior Member

03-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Tam View Post
Is it really better to have Sion over taric? I feel tarics item independence and sustain would be more useful.
Taric is nice, yes. But she doesn't burst the same way Sion does, nor does she take as much damage as Sion can. CDR, AP,Mana Regen make Sion tanky not so much Taric. And the more CDR / AP / Mana Regen Sion has the more damage he puts out so Survivability and damage go hand in hand with Sion. If you're a Sion player you should try 3 dorans rings on Sion mayn. It's funny stuff cuz no body can nuke you and a lot of times you will get away without burning flash from jungle ganks. With your shield up Veigar(Assuming he has around the same gear as you) Can't nuke you. Kassadin can't nuke you. Cass cannot nuke you. As long as you have 2-3 dorans and your shield up. That's why I think he's so effective in bot lane with panth, they both handle AD champs so well.

Sorry to mumble on about all this, but hear me out which I didn't mention on my main post. Sion and Pantheon can tank turrets REALLY well and with their burst they can get in and out really fast. Pantheons passive can eat up turret hits also, and Sion's shield allows him too take turret shots also. Making for an extremely effective comp


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phonixsword

Junior Member

03-24-2012

Bawmp