Legacy Of The Void

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Youso1337

Member

09-06-2012

So lemme get this straight: because of the League's plot, you killed off Leona and Riven?

...you dick...


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Ask Vayne

Senior Member

09-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AhLoso View Post
I wish I had started this when you first posted it. Now it's going to take so long to catch up. *sigh* Oh well, it'll be worth it
Yeah, thanks for starting it. Hope you enjoy it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Youso1337 View Post
So lemme get this straight: because of the League's plot, you killed off Leona and Riven?

...you dick...

Pretty much, yes. It's the only way that you can have this story still be possible because if every champ in the league were alive, you'd be having ~100 of them involved in a massive war against the enemy. Writing something like that would be just utterly impossible because unlike in most other fanfics, this one doesn't take place within League battles so there wouldn't be any limitations on how many can be involved on each side of a battle.


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Yousonerfed

Member

09-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Vayne View Post
Pretty much, yes. It's the only way that you can have this story still be possible because if every champ in the league were alive, you'd be having ~100 of them involved in a massive war against the enemy. Writing something like that would be just utterly impossible because unlike in most other fanfics, this one doesn't take place within League battles so there wouldn't be any limitations on how many can be involved on each side of a battle.
You could've at least let Leona live. She's too good to be senselessly slaughtered by the League! Besides, she could've easily fit into the story due to her power being similar to Lux's!

Unless you're nearing the end of the story, try to find some way to have her emerge from hiding via some plothole. I won't stand for you having her meaninglessly killed off!

And neither will the parrot, if he gets wind of this...

EDIT: If you can't put Leona into this story, then make a side-story where it shows Leona escaping the Summoners. Sure, other Champions can die, but Leona NEEDS to survive!


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Still Eternity

Senior Member

09-11-2012

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Originally Posted by Yousogreat View Post
You could've at least let Leona live. She's too good to be senselessly slaughtered by the League! Besides, she could've easily fit into the story due to her power being similar to Lux's!

Unless you're nearing the end of the story, try to find some way to have her emerge from hiding via some plothole. I won't stand for you having her meaninglessly killed off!

And neither will the parrot, if he gets wind of this...

EDIT: If you can't put Leona into this story, then make a side-story where it shows Leona escaping the Summoners. Sure, other Champions can die, but Leona NEEDS to survive!
Why does Leona need to Survive? Isn't it important if say, Jarvan IV Survives? He is, after all, successor to the throne of Demacia. Why not Karma? Isn't she the rule of Ionia? She's pretty important.

Or how about Heimerdinger and Rumble, Jayce and Viktor, four of the greatest minds the planet had ever seen? Aren't they important?

I think a lot of important characters exist in the League Lore, a lot I personally like a lot. One of my favorites is Swain, but hey, he's either still possessed or dead. He's a brillient tactical mind that would have helped any side he was on, willingly anyway, out incredably. Is it fair for him to fall?

Another favorite of mine is Nautilus, because I sympathise with his story and I think his character is great. But does he stand a chance of making it out alive? Nope. He's not "human" enough for the story. A Large, hulking Diver-Suit man would only drag down the team, or he'd stay behind to fight off mooks to his death while the heros make a classic escape and mourn the fallen journey. That's how these stories go.

So, why is Leona so much more important than the rest of the cast? Because she's the chosen of the "Sun"? Sun, being similer to light, the connection being Light is Good, and thus, she should survive? Well, to me, this isn't that kind of story. This isn't a happy-butterflies-and Lulu tastes purple story. It's a grim, dark tale, that said "Kill 'em All" to over 90 Important Characters in the Game's Universe(Which, by the way, I can respect. Takes guts to kill so many beloved and interesting characters). Sure, it has had it's few Deus Ex Machina moments, where just before an important (to the story's) character dies, they are rescued. But otherwise, this tale is as dark as the Void itself. And just like a Void, no "Light" escapes.

There's no real reason why anyone else deserves to live. You can hope and you can pray the Author writes in some plot-hole, some continigency, a loop-hole, but in the end, whoever the Author wants dead, stays dead. It's Ask Vayne's Universe, they can have whoamever they want to survive.

(That, of course, does not mean I myself don't hope deep down some characters did actually survive. Basically, the much nicer sounding Too long, Didn't Read of this rant is You can hope whoever you want survives, but don't think they're so important they "NEED" to survive over anyone else)


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Still Eternity

Senior Member

09-11-2012

Onto the words I have for your Story, Ask Vayne, I would like to say I'm enjoying it very much. I like the character growth you've infused into Fiora, someone who I'd never thought of as being a candidate for Main Character status for any novel (which this story is, by the way. Good show there.) I at first began to wonder why you chose Fiora, but then realization hit me. I won't go around spilling the beans, but if you picked her for the Pragmatic reason I think you did, then excellent work.

The way you write is very engaging, although you could stand to "show, not tell" a bit more. Meaning just have the characters do something, and have the reader come to understand, rather than having them explain everything themselves. I honestly love your battle scenes a whole lot; they're very actiony and full of life. Also, you develop characters really well. I can see Fiora growing as a person throughout the story, becoming more and more interesting with every encounter, an obviously great thing to have a lot of in any decent story. I do hope you make good on your promise to develop Shen and Talon more as well, as I will likely find whatever story you develop for them to be very interesting indeed.

Onto the story itself, it is evolving nicely. It fits in with a lot of the bits and pieces of Lore Riot has given to the hungry Lore-Readers' playerbase, making them all fit together in a complex web of intrigue. I give you good marks for coming up with all the other backstory things, such as the Goddess and the Atlas civilization and the Aesirs and such. Plus, I give you huge, HUGE points for killing off over 90 of the League's Champions. Lets me tell you, that takes balls. Any player of the game reading your story has likely summoned many, if not all of the characters perished, and of course they will have attachments to them as their "favorites". You killing them, ritual sacrifice, Shen says the Chaos generated proves it, is remarkable in that you had the strength to kill so many. I, as an author, wouldn't have the guts to do it; I would leave the door open slightly, give the readers hope that a New Party Member will join in the form of their own favorite character any chapter now. You don't give them that luxuray; if any of them survived, it ain't going to be very many, context of the story taken as is. That is something I can respect.

Speaking of respect, I equally adore the fact that you're work is nearly grammatically perfect. There's a few mistakes here and there, but hey, I'm just being picky.

Onto a few gripes I have, I saw Ashram coming a mile away. At first I thought he was just some OC, but as he started doing more and more blatently over-powered things, I instantly came to the conclusion that this character was either Ashram, or a Marty Stu. Thank God it proved the former. I can accept Ashram being so powerful because Riot has specifically stated the High Summoners are like Deities in their sheer power. Despite that though, I still think that the story could have worked if you made most of what he tried to do be more "coincidences" than him outright explaining everything and showing off his skills, hiding the fact he's Ashram for a while. Such as the Crystal thing in Piltover. Why not, instead of him simply spilling the beans, have the gang conferr with a contact he knew in Piltover, who gave them the rundown of what's been the goings on? That migth have changed the story just a bit, but I think more for the better that Ashram stay a secret as long as possible, just to give that "shock" factor to the reader.

Also, I feel like you have the characters on the brink of defeat, and suddenly pull them back too often. Everyone can accept a good 'ol Dues Ex every now and again, but they've started to become status quo. Sure, they heighten the drama for a while, but then it just seems so very "constructed" when the saviors comes out of nowhere. If you could, I would like to see less of these moments, more equal battles, as if, say, the heros battle a Big Bad, he's got them on the ropes, but he's worn down too. He pulls out an ace in the hole, but they quickly use their own knowledge to re-direct the attack. It's less "random ability has activated!" and more, "They used their surroundings and tactics to win that fight"

One last, and rather silly thing. Some of the Chapter Prefaces begin with something from "The Memiors of Luxanna Crownguard".

That really killed the drama for me. I sure hope you know why, but I'm going to say it anyway; Lux has to survive in order to write memoirs, and thusly, they succeed in their quest. By including this, you've firmly secured her survival to the end, and that they win. Of course, it's as expected for a novel; you rarely hear of books where the Villians win, do you? But when you're reading a story, you don't let that outside knowledge of inevitable victory for our Heros interfere; instead, you gain a ton of suspence from reading about them risking their lives, as you become attached to them, hoping for their survival. You putting the "Memiores" in ruins a bit of that. For the best example of that, well, you already provided it. The chapter where Fiora, overtaken by the Darkness, stabs Lux in the gut. In any other story? Reader thinks she's 100% dead, that they killed the plucky sidekick and now **** is serious. In this story? I just read her memiores. I know for a fact she's fine. And what do you know, next chapter, illusory clones. Just as expected.

But you may be thinking, "Ah! But Still Eternity, what if I say screw fate and kill Lux anyway?" Well, then Lux obviously can't write any Memiores (the word "Memiores" implies they are written in the future, thusly the implication is she survives into the future, into a time where she is at peace and can indeed, write memiors) and the Chapter Headings were blatent lies. Which is not where the reader wants to be doubting the story. You put them there for good reason, to foreshadow upcoming events, not pull a huge tease on the reader. That's just simply not good writing. So Lux HAS to survive (and thus, securing the hero's victory), because she's wearing this giant suit of Magical-Bulletproof Class SS Deity grade Plot Armor.

Overall, there are a few flaws in this story, mainly the Memiores Drama-Killer as the big one. Dues Exes are fun and cheesy, Ashram being spotted by the reader a mile away is a pleasent tease, but the in-story assurence that the Heros win simply kills a lot of the drama. Sure, you can still have OTHER characters die off, and that's sad. But there's never the chance for a Villianous Victory; it's 100% shut down. And sure, out of story, we expect it, but when engrossed in the novel? We ignore that outside information.

But, even with all that, this is a very engaging tale, told from a character whoam I did not think had the mettle to even be a supporting character, let alone a main one. It is fun and exciting, a bit cheesy at times, but all-together, it's becoming a really great story. I cannot wait to see how it develops.

By the way, I'm sorry if any of my words sound mean or harsh. I'm just being honest and speaking my mind.


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Youso1337

Member

09-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Still Eternity View Post
Why does Leona need to Survive? Isn't it important if say, Jarvan IV Survives? He is, after all, successor to the throne of Demacia. Why not Karma? Isn't she the rule of Ionia? She's pretty important.

Or how about Heimerdinger and Rumble, Jayce and Viktor, four of the greatest minds the planet had ever seen? Aren't they important?

I think a lot of important characters exist in the League Lore, a lot I personally like a lot. One of my favorites is Swain, but hey, he's either still possessed or dead. He's a brillient tactical mind that would have helped any side he was on, willingly anyway, out incredably. Is it fair for him to fall?

Another favorite of mine is Nautilus, because I sympathise with his story and I think his character is great. But does he stand a chance of making it out alive? Nope. He's not "human" enough for the story. A Large, hulking Diver-Suit man would only drag down the team, or he'd stay behind to fight off mooks to his death while the heros make a classic escape and mourn the fallen journey. That's how these stories go.

So, why is Leona so much more important than the rest of the cast? Because she's the chosen of the "Sun"? Sun, being similer to light, the connection being Light is Good, and thus, she should survive? Well, to me, this isn't that kind of story. This isn't a happy-butterflies-and Lulu tastes purple story. It's a grim, dark tale, that said "Kill 'em All" to over 90 Important Characters in the Game's Universe(Which, by the way, I can respect. Takes guts to kill so many beloved and interesting characters). Sure, it has had it's few Deus Ex Machina moments, where just before an important (to the story's) character dies, they are rescued. But otherwise, this tale is as dark as the Void itself. And just like a Void, no "Light" escapes.

There's no real reason why anyone else deserves to live. You can hope and you can pray the Author writes in some plot-hole, some continigency, a loop-hole, but in the end, whoever the Author wants dead, stays dead. It's Ask Vayne's Universe, they can have whoamever they want to survive.

(That, of course, does not mean I myself don't hope deep down some characters did actually survive. Basically, the much nicer sounding Too long, Didn't Read of this rant is You can hope whoever you want survives, but don't think they're so important they "NEED" to survive over anyone else)
When you're right, you're right... I just hate the thought that Leona would be sacrificed for something so... wrong. Besides, in my fanfic, Leona and Lux are real close, so... you get where I'm going.


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Dorryza

Senior Member

09-12-2012

Everyone has their beloved characters. For example, Ceru would be up in arms about the death of Riven.

Me, I've been waiting quite a while for this kind of kind of grim, dark, people die at any time, kinda story. Good job Vayne.


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Still Eternity

Senior Member

09-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Youso1337 View Post
When you're right, you're right... I just hate the thought that Leona would be sacrificed for something so... wrong. Besides, in my fanfic, Leona and Lux are real close, so... you get where I'm going.
But that's the thing. It's not like she sacrificed herself for something evil. Evil sacrificed HER.

The story wants you to harness that rage to really, REALLY see the Big Bads as Complete Monsters. All to make the Heros seem that much more relatable.


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Cha0sniper

Senior Member

09-12-2012

I kind of hate you now Eternity. I've been holding out hope that the sacrificed champions would be revived for the final battle in the void, but that would be too much of a deus ex machina at this point to be swallowed I think. Not without foreshadowing that doesn't exist at the moment.

Damn you for pointing that out, and damn me for being too goddamn honest for my own good >.>


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Ask Vayne

Senior Member

09-12-2012

Chapter 26: Ragnarok is online!

**********************************

Author's Note:

This chapter was another really tough one to write. Trying to balance anguish and the necessary fortitude to fight was really hard and I'm not too sure if I actually pull it off well enough or it was too abrupt. Also, this chapter has one of those really significant events for the overlying plot of the story, so it's not something I randomly threw in there just to make the story fit. You'll see what I mean.

@Still Eternity, thanks for those suggestions. You're right, some of the moments were kind of cheezy, but I mainly threw them in there for a more of a dramatic effect. As for the Lux, yeah the memoires basically proves that she'll survive everything but that was never intended to be a secret. I actually purposely included those little excerpts to give it a more mysterious and gloomy feeling. The overlying plot is still yet to be revealed and if I can pull it off well, I think it'll be a twist that noone saw coming. Also, glad you're enjoying the story. It took a lot of time to develop and look forward to more feedback on how to improve the overall story. Not going to lie, this coming chapter has quite a big seemingly random event that fits in with that whole Deus Ex theme, but all I'll say is that it's important that this happens. As for Fiora, there were multiple reasons, but one reason was just to tackle sheer challenge of turning a one-dimensional into perhaps the most complex character. I hope I was able to pull that part off at least somewhat decently.

@Youso1337, unfortunately, I kind of made it pretty well known early on that this won't be your classic Champ x Champ type of fic, or a happy go lucky storybook ending kind of fic. It would be highly unrealistic given the scale of the plot in this story that everyone would emerge from this with a happily ever after kind of ending and all of the small excerpts at the beginning of each chapter basically hint at this.

@Dorryza, thanks for the props. That was kind of the intent. The rest of this plot is going to be a rather risky one, especially at the end, so I'm hoping that people like how it turns out.

@Cha0sniper, sorry, but it had to be done to create the effect. Hope you enjoy where it goes, though!