Maw of Malmortius: Potentially overlooked issue?

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Porkghop

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03-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KobaltKode View Post
During Undying Rage Tryndamere is left at 1 HP, not 0, so even he gets the 39. The only time, you could get the 40 is then you are dead...Making Karthus the only person who would ever see the full 40 damage.

I don't think he can auto attack during that, can he?
while he does still have 1 life due to how a computer rounds it would give 40ad


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

03-20-2012

Honestly, bloodthirster is still more useful. That stacks-loss buff is great.

Tryndamere is a carry. He had the tools to forgo magic resist before, and still has them now.


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jpalomo

Junior Member

03-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnack View Post
Not really. Tryndamere already has plenty of items that give him more bang than Maw.
Not really:
Level 5 Bloodlust - 25 Damage + 34.65 (assuming he is at 1% health) Damage = 59.65 Damage

Maw of Malmortius - 55 Damage + 39.6 (also assuming he is at 1% health) Damage = 94.6

Total bonus damage = 154.25

In comparison, Infinity Edge gives +80 damage (with the potential for more from crits). The only 2 items that have more damage are The Bloodthirster and Sword of the Occult.

So in total, there are 3 items that potentially have more damage than Maw of Malmortius. In my opinion, Maw isn't the most reliable form of damage, but the other passive and the bonus MR really help to cover part of Tryndamere's weaknesses (burst damage and crowd control).


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Carnack

Senior Member

03-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalomo View Post
Not really:
Level 5 Bloodlust - 25 Damage + 34.65 (assuming he is at 1% health) Damage = 59.65 Damage

Maw of Malmortius - 55 Damage + 39.6 (also assuming he is at 1% health) Damage = 94.6

Total bonus damage = 154.25

In comparison, Infinity Edge gives +80 damage (with the potential for more from crits). The only 2 items that have more damage are The Bloodthirster and Sword of the Occult.

So in total, there are 3 items that potentially have more damage than Maw of Malmortius. In my opinion, Maw isn't the most reliable form of damage, but the other passive and the bonus MR really help to cover part of Tryndamere's weaknesses (burst damage and crowd control).
Bloodthirster also provides lifesteal. The shield on maw at higher levels is one good spell and odds are it will trigger during his ultimate.

QSS is a more reliable form of CC mitigation.

Secondly since crit modifies damage based on your AD higher damage items do get more weight than a cute passive.


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Shade7777

Junior Member

03-20-2012

Item changes are always VERY scetchy, but i don't see any real problems with this, although i am worried that the description seams that it was made for melee ad, but to me this looks like a great item for ranged ad carries, I'm not saying that this is immediatly a problem, but I just hope riot hasnt overlooked it's power in the hands of those who the item was not made for, Like how they decided to nurf lifesteal to hit ranged ad, without any thought of what it might do to lifesteal champs like yi.


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Xela Syab

Senior Member

03-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalomo View Post
Not really:
Level 5 Bloodlust - 25 Damage + 34.65 (assuming he is at 1% health) Damage = 59.65 Damage

Maw of Malmortius - 55 Damage + 39.6 (also assuming he is at 1% health) Damage = 94.6

Total bonus damage = 154.25

In comparison, Infinity Edge gives +80 damage (with the potential for more from crits). The only 2 items that have more damage are The Bloodthirster and Sword of the Occult.

So in total, there are 3 items that potentially have more damage than Maw of Malmortius. In my opinion, Maw isn't the most reliable form of damage, but the other passive and the bonus MR really help to cover part of Tryndamere's weaknesses (burst damage and crowd control).
Its a pretty steep weigh in between survivability and damage output. Honestly I like Maw of Malmortius more than bloodthirster on Tryndamere. Simply because it gives more survivability with AP heavy teams and the damage proc helps out with characters that deal hybrid damage that aren't total bursters like Ryze, Shyvanna, and Sion. WIth Mal and Wits End you can have really nice damage output and a decent level of magic resist against mages. Since mages and disrupters are the real threat to trynd I'd recommend it
.


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

03-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyone001 View Post
Last person I would think to get this on would be Trynd .. isn't it only like 25 attack damage even at one health? An extra shield would probably just get wasted due too the instinct to ultimate when you're about to die ...

I'm honestly quite disappointed. The nerf to Hexdrinker itself sucks, and this item is way too expensive as it is. 3300? Wow.

I've only ever really felt compelled to get this item on Riven. I just feel they could of tried a little harder on the upgraded version.
The item might actually be exactly what trynda is looking for. I can't think of any stun that isn't blocked by a spell shield such as Morg's so this could be a more aggressive choice to cleanse or QQS which are used to end CC where as this shield allows for the CC to be prevented. It also automatically activates at 30% health when is about when most trynda's activate there ult in a team fight meaning that they are covered from CC until that shield is gone.

This is however just theory because I haven't tried it out.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

03-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaP616 View Post
This will make the argument of just "CC him and it K" fairly weaker assuming that the shield from Maw of Malmortius is actually like the shield of hexdrinker and Morg. (I haven't been able to test it out yet)

The two most common ways people say to counter trynda is Ignite which is still a strong argument and hard CC. If trynda can get a shield that blocks spell damage and the CC that comes with it when he gets low on health then he just became harder to deal with.

This item will also be annoying on olaf but manageable because he already can't be disabled.
Only Morganna's Shield makes one immune to disables. Hexdrinker and Maw of Mortius would list that in the ability description if it was the case (and it is not).

Instead what usually happens with the Hexdrinker/Maw shield is that you are hard-cc'd for part or all of the duration that the shield is up (if it even holds), or it doesn't even proc because you took physical or true damage to drop from above 30% to below 30% instead of magic damage.


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Khalahn

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Senior Member

03-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
Only Morganna's Shield makes one immune to disables. Hexdrinker and Maw of Mortius would list that in the ability description if it was the case (and it is not).

Instead what usually happens with the Hexdrinker/Maw shield is that you are hard-cc'd for part or all of the duration that the shield is up (if it even holds), or it doesn't even proc because you took physical or true damage to drop from above 30% to below 30% instead of magic damage.
Even if physical or true damage bring you to 1 hp, the passive shield will still trigger before a spell hits you.


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0zyallstar

Senior Member

03-20-2012

Quote:
Last person I would think to get this on would be Trynd .. isn't it only like 25 attack damage even at one health? An extra shield would probably just get wasted due too the instinct to ultimate when you're about to die ...
wow... your good at math arnt you...
here is the deal, with 3300 gold it buys you 55 ad, plus 40 ad not 25. thats 95 ad which would make it the second largest AD item in the game. not only that it also offer +36 magic resist, and a really nice shield which counters ap burst counters and gives 400 shield.

This is obviously really strong on tryndamere because it synergises with his bloodlust and his ultimate.
so if we do the math.
at level 9 with a maw tryndamere will have...
84.8 base damage
+ 25 (from bloodlust base ad)
+ 35 (from bloodlust extra ad)
+ 55 (from Maw base ad)
+ 40 (from Maw extra ad)
+ 12 (masteries)
+ 17 (runes, marks and quints)

= 269 ad and he crits over 35% of the time
which means at level 9, he can hit for .... *drumroll*
585 damage! (including masteries)
and if he has berserker greaves on top of that which in all likely hood he will, he will have 1.2 attacks per second. Which means while his ult is active (5 seconds) he can hit 6 times.
therefore his average, accounting for critical hits at level 9 while his ult is active is ...
2428 damage.
which is enough to kill anyone. of course this doesnt account for armour or natural defenses, however the point is... thats legit, i dont care what anyone says that is really strong. the numbers dont lie. but take into account this is the best case scenario, so even if we say he only hits 3 times he still does over 1200 damage, thats pretty scary.