@Morello, Revert Kayle as a bandaid fix

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ISiefer

Senior Member

03-15-2012

You're doing things to Katarina? I'm actually pretty interested. I love her and use her all the time, but I have to admit she can get countered hard by some teams. Tanky DPS and people with lots of CC shut her down. If they made some small changes to make her less swingy and more viable, while still retaining what makes her fun, I could get behind that. Also, her early game probably needs some work, too. Luckily we have people like TiensaNoAkuma and Scarra out there to illustrate what makes Katarina fun and what doesn't (if she doesn't kill someone, she stops being useful, tanky dps laugh at her damage, all forms of CC stop her main form of damage, and her early game against a large amount of champions currently consists of trying to survive and waiting for a jungle gank).
What makes her fun? The unpredictability and mobility of shunpo, the way she cleans up fights (same thing that makes Yi and Fiora pretty fun actually) and her sudden onset of damage that can come out of nowhere in the right situations. The basic idea of her kit is pretty cool. I just think she needs... something...


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ISiefer

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Knowing Guinsoo's brand of mad science, probably both
Also, as a big Karma player, that's probably my favorite answer you could've given =)
It's what she is right now, and it's what I'd like to see her stay. Yay!


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Nekt

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Swole View Post
top 50%? steroids and range really. kayles range is 525 with her steroid and melee without. she's forced to itemize for cdr. and her steroids are not the greatest. Her W-E are extremely lackluster and her ult is really what keeps her afloat. Her Q is also really solid. Good ratio/slow/damage amp/overall damage.

Her damage is not even "awesome dmg." Is her damage strong enough to compensate for the 7seconds of down time/35% cdr requirement? I say not because even without the downtime some champions (like Corki) will flat out, outdamage her.

The only thing that prevents any direct comparisons with Kayle and another champion is her ult.

Also Kayle counter picks some bruisers, others she doesn't. She's a situational pick.

And as good as you claim she is, she has not been chosen in any recent tournaments in either EUW or NA. Sure you may like her current incarnation, but are you overly satisfied right now, to believe that she cant be better?
What exactly do you define as autoattacker? Ashe has no steroids at all, like really nothing, yet she is ridiculously strong and that arrow singlehandedly carried M5 vs the splitpush. Another example Kog. He has a 30% AS steroid (which you pay 5 lvls for) and once his bio-arcane barrage runs out he is a different champion. Iīve never seen Kog build CDR and he has a shorter uptime than Kayle.

And she is bad because she wasnīt played in tournaments? Well letīs look at our dear Cassiopeia who players didnīt even know she existed. Never banned, never picked in so many tournaments until someone finally dared doing it. But boy did i earn many flames for picking Cassio over Annie and whatnot. Go look at release-Irelia or rework-Ryze that went unchecked for months. Why it is important for someone else to show you that a champion is good/bad.


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exe3

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Senior Member

03-15-2012

Karma will still be keeping her current flavor right? I don't want to lose the Mantra's personally, I just want them to be a bit more usable.


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Bob36

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Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
None of those are casters or supports. You're going back over a year to find fighter examples here :P
old jax was a caster but with sustained damage and shen used to be a pretty popular support


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Crsh

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Unsure still, behind Stealth, Katarina and Karma at least.
Wtf? Since when is kat in a bad place. I admit she's a TEENSY bit up but she should be nowhere near top priority (kayle just needs a remake. Straight up.)


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ScoobySenpai

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Member

03-15-2012

I don't know why this seems to constantly get ignored, but Kayle is actually an exceptional jungler right now. I've played her in a handful of normals, as well as 3 ranked games (3-0 with around a 4.5 kda) and found that she just does so much. Yes, her passive sucks, and yes, there are things I would like buffed, but hear me out.

Her E was given enough damage to make it a jungling tool. She becomes incredibly snowbally with her clears after picking up just a Madred's, and she sustains **** well as long as she has blue.

She comes packing a slow, as well as a decent punch of damage in her ganks. If she has red buff, you can guarantee they have to flash or die. In the rework, she was given the bonus AD ratio on Reckoning as well, which means that you scale a bit more from that Wriggles you bought to jungle.

She can dive like a BOSS at 6, which means higher percentage of successful ganks. This translates into less wasted time in an age where ganks are really more a luxury than part of the job description. She can also either escape or duel quite well assuming she doesn't lose BOTH of her early buffs. This makes her somewhat resilient to the counterjungling we deal with today.

One last point, she has both the qualities of a support and the qualities of a carry. You can either get fed and scale into being a huge threat, or just get by and still be effective. In addition, she packs some heals in an age where Janna and Nunu have become the most popular supports.



tl;dr : Kayle may not be the best champ, or OP right now. She could certainly use some love as I think that a furious angel should be out beating copious amounts of ass. That said, she is a VERY good jungler who has great potential with the right team and player. So instead of crying that she's completely useless, give this a shot...

Then come back and let Morello know that her passive is still ****-awful =p


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NimrodD

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Senior Member

03-15-2012

So, is that a "No" to reverting her until the rework that probably will take months to come arrives? I liked her before


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Denerka

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Do not make Karma a support, please.


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Nevadia

Senior Member

03-15-2012

are u serious? i honestly think kayle right know is fine or at least i dont have a problem using her. Not a totally carry but dps is certainly up there