Sion with bloodthirster

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thebestman14

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03-12-2012

Hello, recently, I've seen a couple of ad sion builds that bloodthirster was a waste on sion. I was called a scrub a couple games i played sion with some lifesteal on him. I know that his ult gives him insane amounts of lifesteal, but what's so bad about building a lifesteal item on him such as a bloodthirster when his ult is on cooldown? I usually get it in case i get harrased before a fight is about to start, clearing jungles and such. Can anyone explain to me what's so bad about the bloodthirster on sion? Are there alternatives since stark's was removed?


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RavenMagus

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03-12-2012

Lifesteal is actually really nice on him, since it makes farming a breeze with his E which would otherwise slowly hurt him. I usually just get the vamp scepter and leave it at that for a while, though; I think things like Phantom Dancers are more important to have first, and the scepter can be upgraded to Bloodthirster later.


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Warrrrax

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03-12-2012

I wouldnt call BT terrible exactly, its just that it doesn't work all that great with his kit.

Sion has a huge 65 AD for FREE, right?
He also has some free AS and lifesteal.

So what do you get on a champ that has to autoattack to deal sustained damage, who has 4000 gold of free AD, and 1250g of free AS (sometimes) and craploads of lifesteal (sometimes)?

Sion wants :
Survivability
Snare
Speed (movespeed)
Attack Speed
and Crits which multiply his large DPS even further.


So an AD Sion will typically get the following:

1 or 2 Phantom Dancers - 60% crit, huge movespeed booster
Frozen Mallet - Snare, and lots of health (survivability)
Inf Edge - not really for the AD mostly, but because of the huge crit multipler.
Banshees - more health, magic resist
merc treads
Maybe an Atmas - AD, crit, armor.


So where does bloodthirster fit in exactly? Its main benefit is AD and lifesteal....which Sion already has TONS of! Sion would not want this item until he has a LOT of survival, snare, speed, and AS.

By the time hes finished with the above, he has a ton of attack speed, huge AD, a 90% crit with 260% multipler. He also has a great chunk of health and high magic resistance and decent armor.


Starks worked decently because of its lifesteal, big attack speed, and armor pen. But its gone forever and I don't see Sion taking much else.


You could always just get a Vamp Scepter to offset his life loss and just hold onto it for most of the game, then sell later on. If solo top, he might take a Philo Stone for health, mana regen. Or maybe a wriggles which gives him armor, lifesteal for great sustain.


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Lensing FTW

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Atmas is really nice on him because of the interaction between both passives and the bonus stats. As a rule of thumb, if your champion has a plethora of a certain stat early it is usually best to build around their weaknessses first. For example, rushing a phantom dancer on Fiora is pretty stupid because of her absurdly high as steriod. There are better stats to focus on to make her well rounded. Sion with a vamp sceptar essentially has a free (alebit lesser) bloodthirster in terms of ad and lifesteal that should sustain you for the majority of the game. So as a generality, you have free 3000 gold (approximate price of a bloodthirster), that you can afford to spend on something else. As a later luxury item bloodthirster is amazing on him, but you would be better served building other starts including health and attack speed. For ad Sion (assuming jungle) I would suggest wriggles, merc treads, frozen mallet, atmas impaler, wits end, and a luxury dps item like IE or BT. You will likely get better results than full glass cannon.


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fazisi

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03-12-2012

As stated, Sion's AD is naturally insane with Enrage. So you want to get stats that synergize with this. Greatest stat that accentuates AD? Critical strikes. Three of the greatest items for melee DPS all have this stat and several other useful stats.

1. Phantom Dancer - this item is practically core to AD Sion in my opinion. You need movement speed to get places, simple enough. You will also be hitting more often (each hit gets the same amount of AD added to it by Enrage. Answer? MOAR HITS!)

2. Atma's Impaler - you get armor which scales with your W (more effective HP cuz your shield lasts longer) and you are getting more HP from last hitting creep so you are constantly getting more and more damage while simultaneously getting tanky.

3. Youmuu's Ghostblade - cdr for more spell castings as well as the absolute nuts steroid ability to mash when you hit your ult.

So yeah, I like 1 small piece of lifesteal (usually just the scepter) and spend my gold buying other items that focus on attack speed, critical strikes and defense. I don't really want to get into all of which defensive/semi-defensive items are the greatest since it is really situational. Wit's End is probably my favorite given how awesome it is.


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Warrrrax

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03-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lensing FTW View Post
Atmas is really nice on him because of the interaction between both passives and the bonus stats. As a rule of thumb, if your champion has a plethora of a certain stat early it is usually best to build around their weaknessses first. For example, rushing a phantom dancer on Fiora is pretty stupid because of her absurdly high as steriod. There are better stats to focus on to make her well rounded. Sion with a vamp sceptar essentially has a free (alebit lesser) bloodthirster in terms of ad and lifesteal that should sustain you for the majority of the game. So as a generality, you have free 3000 gold (approximate price of a bloodthirster), that you can afford to spend on something else. As a later luxury item bloodthirster is amazing on him, but you would be better served building other starts including health and attack speed. For ad Sion (assuming jungle) I would suggest wriggles, merc treads, frozen mallet, atmas impaler, wits end, and a luxury dps item like IE or BT. You will likely get better results than full glass cannon.
Ok, I am confused. Your logic is absolutely correct about you want to round out what a champ doesn't have.
But you basically contradict yourself by listing a bunch of AD items like Atmas, Wriggles.

By your own logic, Sion would want to get a bunch of Attack Speed and crit to round out his huge AD, right? But then you take no AS whatsoever until endgame thru wits end (which doesnt really combo with crit).


Granted you might want Wriggles for the sustain and/or jungle. But after that, Id expect you'd want a Zeal, Phage, then upgrade to PD and Mallet which gives the AS, snare, and health. Then get whatever magic resist item, probably banshees.


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MarkF8

Junior Member

03-13-2012

I main AD sion. He's a beast with bloodthirster on him especially with some crit chance runes for early game. My build goes : - bersekers
-phantom dancer
-bloodthirster
-infinity edge
-frozen mallet
-and of course an atmas to stack up with his E.

Dont need THAT much AS since the enemy will die within the duration of the stun. lol