You're an AD carry and your enemy is stacking armor...

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GeneralDirection

Senior Member

03-12-2012

...how do you respond? Do you try to match their sturdiness with your own set of armor/magic resistance, do you build on-hit weapons that do magic damage, or do you find building armor penetration items to be more effective?

In context, I play a lot of Caitlyn (top and bot) and in a lot of situations my opponents stack Chain Vest based items against me. What kind of items would be best for this situation?


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Kiddalee

Senior Member

03-12-2012

I think, though I would need to ask, that Thornmail reflects on-hit damage. So while on-hit is nice, it might not be nice against Thornmailers. Randuin's Omen lowers your attack and movement speed more often based on how many times you hit it - another reason not to build on-hit. Frozen Heart lowers your attack speed no matter what you build, so on-hit might be good in that case.

The rest is beyond me.


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Yaladilae

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Member

03-12-2012

Build an early bow, the one with the blue background


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Exsnypre

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralDirection View Post
...how do you respond? Do you try to match their sturdiness with your own set of armor/magic resistance, do you build on-hit weapons that do magic damage, or do you find building armor penetration items to be more effective?

In context, I play a lot of Caitlyn (top and bot) and in a lot of situations my opponents stack Chain Vest based items against me. What kind of items would be best for this situation?
I've heard good things about this item called Last Whisper, and that MR is a counter to Thornmail.

I think everyone's full of it though.


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GeneralDirection

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exsnypre View Post
I've heard good things about this item called Last Whisper, and that MR is a counter to Thornmail.

I think everyone's full of it though.
The problem is that sometimes Last Whisper isn't the golden answer to all armor problems and when I do build it and get slaughtered I wonder if the correct move would've been to bulk up so that I could have swapped blows more effectively. Also MR against Thornmail can be kind of awkward, like when facing J4, Riven, Urgot, etc.


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Makestro

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralDirection View Post
The problem is that sometimes Last Whisper isn't the golden answer to all armor problems and when I do build it and get slaughtered I wonder if the correct move would've been to bulk up so that I could have swapped blows more effectively. Also MR against Thornmail can be kind of awkward, like when facing J4, Riven, Urgot, etc.
So build a LW and bulk up at the same time.


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GeneralDirection

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makestro View Post
So build a LW and bulk up at the same time.
Which defensive items do you find most effective to pair up with LW? Also, since building LW and defense consumes a good deal of gold, should I omit building a quick Sanguine Blade and just go straight for the arpen and health?


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Roundabout

Member

03-12-2012

I don't play a lot of AD, but I would maybe try Prospector's, Zerker Greaves, Sanguine Blade, Last Whisper, Wit's End.

I might even throw in a Lightbringer because IIRC, it does give some health. And I suppose there is a distinct lack of crit there, so a Phantom Dancer or IE would definitely be needed.


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Makestro

Senior Member

03-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralDirection View Post
Which defensive items do you find most effective to pair up with LW? Also, since building LW and defense consumes a good deal of gold, should I omit building a quick Sanguine Blade and just go straight for the arpen and health?
Just try to find a balance. You probably have a different play style than some of us so telling you what to build isn't a great idea. One thing you can do is try to build items that give both offense and defense. Examples being Atma's, Wit's End, Hexdrinker, ect. Lots of items can increase your damage output and also make you more tanky. Build like a bruiser basically if you find yourself dying to easily while dishing out nothing. Mix that in with life steal and a last whispers

Another thing is try to counter by changing your damage, if you aim for on hit affects vs a couple thornmails they start to become obsolete. This however becomes less of an option if you're dealing with frozen hearts and wardens mail/randuins stackers and is more of a counter for people trying to counter via thornmail + other armor items.

Also, you can just build a LW and lifesteal if you can talk your tank or CC into protecting you, in pubs this is harder said than done, but suggesting your tanks build an aura item or 2 to benefit everyone is never a waste. An aegis and zeke's will go a long way if you have more than 1 ad top, and the aegis will help everyone top regardless.

The only other thing besides items is getting use to when to enter a fight, try to watch for them to burn CC and other abilities you find hindering you. Also never be hesitant to buy a QSS is you're getting exhausted and CC'd into the ground every fight. If you can stay in the fight long enough to turn the tide in your favor you're doing your job, and that's all that matters even if you go 3/10/20, because score doesn't matter if you win(unless you're doing bad obviously).

But imho, if I end up playing an AD champion and I see myself facing a team with lots of armor potential I just get a LW and build normal, with the exceptions of build a giants belt earlier and getting 2 vamp scepters earlier than normal. I only start to build tanky if I die so fast the damage output I bring is worthless, because most the time your team needs you to remain a high damage dealer or else you'll start to fall off late game because you can't stop them.


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Forbiddian

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Senior Member

03-12-2012

The counter to armor is more damage. Buy the most efficient item at any given time (usually for Cait, that's Infinity Edge early, then Phantom Dancer/Sanguine Blade).

Last Whisper becomes more efficient the more armor your opponent has. Typically when your opponents get around 140-150 total armor is when LW becomes the most efficient item. LW is very inefficient if your opponents have low armor. Like just a chain vest on every opponent isn't enough to justify LW. You'd do more damage buying more damage items at that point.

The point of an AD carry is that attack damage items scale off of each other. The more crit you have, the more valuable damage is. The more damage you have, the more valuable AS is. The more AS you have.... All these stats are related. If you stop to build defensive items, you really set your damage back.

An AD requires teamwork to protect, because you're relying on your teammates to provide that minimum amount of protection. The risk is that you have zero defensive items. The reward is that your damage scales to incredible levels.


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