Zilean Feedback?

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v81633331

Senior Member

03-11-2012

I love the playstyle of zilean, and I enjoy using him as support.. However.. I have been having issues lately when I do.

See thing is - I am convinced zilean is not a 0 cs support, and without sustainability and CDR, his role as a support is dramatically decreased. That being said, I also tend to do 100% of the harassment and I have been having a string of bad games because the carry in my lane

A) Does nothing to harass(but expects me to buy the hell out of wards) or

B) Does really stupid stunts and ends up dying, sometimes I follow after because I could really use those support kills...

I am at a loss.

It is to the point that I almost don't care if the carry gets any farm because all they usually end up doing is dying.

I am not sure what it is that causes it, because I will often check their stats and a few of them are ~1500 elo - which baffles me even more!

I am beginning to wonder if this "support/ad ranged carry bottom" tactic has been a crutch and they are too accustomed to being lazy and careless because their sona/soraka/taric will keep their green bubbles full, whereas zilean will give you support damage, slows/speeds and a free save from an ignite death(or in this case, there was no rez in the world that would prevent what happened to you)...

I'm not trying to bash or hate, I just don't know what I am suppose to do in this situation...

I can't help a carry who doesn't help itself. I can't heal them when they are being careless. Also, when I lane the other bot lane usually plays so defensively I'd have to chase them to the tower to even get an autoattack off :/...

I'm at a loss.


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Larvae To Leech

Member

03-11-2012

In my mind zil can play as a low cs support i wont start farming until my carry has at least the 1st 3 (complete) items of there build. The problem with zil as a support is not that zil makes mistake its the fact that many people are used to paying with a support with heal capabilities and in turn take a more aggressive stance were as when zil supports hes should be the most aggressive person in bot lane and the carry should devote 90% of effort to farm rather than say 70% farm 30% poke. Of course this is all based on my humble opinion and normal blinds as i do not have much experience in ranked


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v81633331

Senior Member

03-11-2012

Well good to know that someone out there agrees :s


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Cenerae

Senior Member

03-11-2012

Zilean isn't really a good choice for a 0cs support. With no AP, his harrass drops off sharply after early game is over, and his ult won't revive a target with much health (though it's hardly useless without AP of course). Bombs also push the lane hard and may inadvertantly take your partner's cs.

When he's played, Zilean is generally used in the AP mid slot. Bomb harrass is strong early game and his ult benefits well from AP. His damage might fall off late game but it's sort of like using Soraka or Karma as a mid. They dominate the early game and shift to a more supportive role later.


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v81633331

Senior Member

03-11-2012

People still play Karma??


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Cenerae

Senior Member

03-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by v81633331 View Post
People still play Karma??
Just because she isn't much played doesn't make the point any less valid. I mean, it IS her role...


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TheMask336

Senior Member

03-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
Zilean isn't really a good choice for a 0cs support. With no AP, his harrass drops off sharply after early game is over, and his ult won't revive a target with much health (though it's hardly useless without AP of course). Bombs also push the lane hard and may inadvertantly take your partner's cs.

When he's played, Zilean is generally used in the AP mid slot. Bomb harrass is strong early game and his ult benefits well from AP. His damage might fall off late game but it's sort of like using Soraka or Karma as a mid. They dominate the early game and shift to a more supportive role later.
you dont have to play him just mid i do all lanes i just know how to get some cs to where im not gimped and my partner has more then enough to get some of his core items
the point of zil tho is hes a poker/damage dealer early but he turns into a reviver/damage dealing person during the mid-late game.......a good zil can turn the tides of the battle to their teams favor

most ppl go after your squshy well right before they die u pop ur ult they die their on the next person while your carry is alive and dishing out the damage they were doing before they died, meanwhile your throwing ur bombs on their squishys and bombing escapers to make sure they aint gettin away alive...........one good ult on your part will make said above and the outcome in your favor....thats if no1 on your team fed anyone :/ ofc which really how many games does that not happen lol.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

03-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushviper336 View Post
your missing the point of zil tho hes a poker/damage dealer early but he turns into a reviver/damage dealing person during the mid-late game.......a good zil can turn the tides of the battle to their teams fav

most ppl go after your squshy well right before they die u pop ur ult they die there on the next person while your carry is alive and dishing out the damage meanwhile your throwing ur bombs on their squishys and bombing escapers to make sure they aint gettin away alive...........one good ult on your part will make said above and the outcome in your favor....thats if no1 on your team fed anyone :/ ofc which really how many games does that not happen lol.
Yes, but with no AP to back up his spells, his bombs become obsolete very quickly and any revived target will get blown up instantly since they'll only come back with what, 900 health? As opposed to having powerful bombs for pokes and a full health revive.

And as a support, his bombs will push the lane and take cs, which is a bad thing.


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TheMask336

Senior Member

03-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
Yes, but with no AP to back up his spells, his bombs become obsolete very quickly and any revived target will get blown up instantly since they'll only come back with what, 900 health? As opposed to having powerful bombs for pokes and a full health revive.

And as a support, his bombs will push the lane and take cs, which is a bad thing.
true they do slack off a lil but if you run full ap runes and masteris you have around 90ap at i think 10 (not sure what lvl i was ) n thats not including the cdr pot. which i buy alot helps with cds and gives me more damage when im working towards my damage dealing stuff....

Also you shouldn bomb the minions anyway imo (granted most zils probly do but htey shouldnt) let you carry do all the work you just last hit.....you dont push the lane and you force the enemy to come into bomb range so you can harrass.....like the op said i think.....zill should be doing most of the harrass and playing agressive to a degree least i do.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

03-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushviper336 View Post
true they do slack off a lil but if you run full ap runes and masteris you have around 90ap at i think 10 (not sure what lvl i was ) n thats not including the cdr pot. which i buy alot helps with cds and gives me more damage when im working towards my damage dealing stuff....

Also you shouldn bomb the minions anyway imo (granted most zils probly do but htey shouldnt) let you carry do all the work you just last hit.....you dont push the lane and you force the enemy to come into bomb range so you can harrass.....like the op said i think.....zill should be doing most of the harrass and playing agressive to a degree least i do.
It doesn't matter if you bomb the minions or not. Smart opponents will walk over to their minion wave when they have a bomb on them so it aoe's the whole lot of em. Thereby pushing the wave really, really hard.


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