"94% of Tribunal cases are punished"

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dumpweed

Senior Member

03-10-2012

You also have to remember that since the the Tribunal is completely volunteer, it is more attractive to certain types of people than others. Not everyone wants to spend time judging others for peanuts on the internet. It's also pretty clear that some people take more time than others.... even on a case by case basis.

EDIT: How do you all catch the flat out lying that goes on sometimes? The one where the guy covering for his buddy starts making stuff up on all chat and asking the other team to report people who are just trying to survive the game. I'm OK with the idea of the Tribunal in some form but the fact that you cannot see the chat from champ selection is a problem.

I just came back to this game after a long break and, wow. It's really hard to even mind your own business and just try to carry the game. You can't talk to anyone because people will turn each other the minute things go poorly for the team. Whoever said the part about toxic attitudes is spot on. People troll their teammates if they even build something not currently in "fashion." If you stick up for people they just turn on you and you are dragged into a reporting mess of **** that wasn't even worth the trouble in the first place.

EDIT 2: For you guys that look at stats, if someone is trolling the game and you try to carry it 4v5 or whatever, your stats are going to suck if you fail. How do you tell the difference if all you do is quickly skim amd assume everyone who wound up there deserved it?


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onihero

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Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Reepa View Post
Actually you can.... it's called their own best interest. Apparently you don't understand good business practices lol.
So, by nature of RIOT being a business, they can never make any bad business decisions? They can never be wrong? They can never implement practices that have negative long term effects on their customers?


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onihero

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Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpweed View Post
I just came back to this game after a long break and, wow. It's really hard to even mind your own business and just try to carry the game. You can't talk to anyone because people will turn each other the minute things go poorly for the team. Whoever said the part about toxic attitudes is spot on. People troll their teammates if they even build something not currently in "fashion." If you stick up for people they just turn on you and you are dragged into a reporting mess of **** that wasn't even worth the trouble in the first place.
This.

The game has become no better since the Tribunal. It has become even worse in my opinion. Even more toxic now that people feel they can do something about someone that has a bad game by reporting them. "Report xxxxxxxx for xxxxxxxx" is just so common now and its nothing more than bullying.


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dumpweed

Senior Member

03-10-2012

I mean, are people just not supposed to say something when the vocal guy with a horrible, horrible, attitude is trying to rally support and build a case in chat of why X person needs reported? You can't defend yourself if you ignore someone and don't know what they are saying. If you don't say anything, there is nothing on chat in your defense, and then you show up on the tribunal, and people, like in this thread, assume that "if you are here, you deserve it."

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, this system, but to sit here, plug your fingers in your ears, and say there aren't serious holes in it is nothing short of denial. The power lies solely with the accuser and a jury that is ran completely on a trust system. RIOT is trusting that you will do more than sit there and assume guilt.


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DreamwalkerLin

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZiggyOnMars View Post
How can they let the animal in a jungle to judge the other animal in the same jungle?
We have judges on Earth judging other people on Earth...


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dumpweed

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamwalkerLin View Post
We have judges on Earth judging other people on Earth...
Yes, and generally those people are expected to have great wisdom, training, and rule of law as their guide. Something that sets them apart from the general populace. I mean, are any of those judges 12 year old kids? They could be one here if they wanted to be.

That's fantastic logic, people on earth judge other people, therefore everyone is qualified to judge everyone else.


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Lord Reepa

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03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by onihero View Post
So, by nature of RIOT being a business, they can never make any bad business decisions? They can never be wrong? They can never implement practices that have negative long term effects on their customers?
No they can, but no intelligent business would continue a bad decision that would inherently ruin their bottom line.

They have checked the numbers after the fact and even posted those numbers.

You continually say the tribunal has a negative effect and that you see more trolls now. I see the opposite of that in every fashion.


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dumpweed

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Reepa View Post
No they can, but no intelligent business would continue a bad decision that would inherently ruin their bottom line.

They have checked the numbers after the fact and even posted those numbers.

You continually say the tribunal has a negative effect and that you see more trolls now. I see the opposite of that in every fashion.
That's an idealistic look at business at it's best. I won't even touch your qualitative judgement of what constitutes an "intelligent" business, because that's all going to be opinion. What you're saying is either Riot is perfect or it isn't. If that were true there wouldn't be countless threads about people feeling the ELO system is broken and traps them in "hell." I don't know how Riot can be perceived as doing so poorly with one thing by the forum crowd and then be treated as infallible with another. It doesn't make any sense unless it's explained by the type of people who are drawn to participate in both activities.

The game can be performing just fine, but that does not mean there aren't things that don't need improvement or have errors that need correcting. I don't have to be a saint (definitely not) or have been banned (not that I know of) to tell you that the system has brought with it its own set of anti-fun mechanics. I'm really sick of games devolving into a chat fest of who deserves to be banned more.


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Lord Reepa

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Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpweed View Post
That's an idealistic look at business at it's best. I won't even touch your qualitative judgement of what constitutes an "intelligent" business, because that's all going to be opinion. What you're saying is either Riot is perfect or it isn't. If that were true there wouldn't be countless threads about people feeling the ELO system is broken and traps them in "hell." I don't know how Riot can be perceived as doing so poorly with one thing and then be treated as infallible with another. It doesn't make any sense.

The game can be performing just fine, but that does not mean there aren't things that don't need improvement or have errors that need correcting.
You want to highlight the part where I said they were perfect.... you lose a lot of gusto when you start putting words in peoples mouths to make your point.

Also point out the part I said they don't need improvement.... everything can always use improvements... however the tribunal is not broken like everyone (scratch that), the vast minority so claims.


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dumpweed

Senior Member

03-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Reepa View Post
You want to highlight the part where I said they were perfect.... you lose a lot of gusto when you start putting words in peoples mouths to make your point.

Also point out the part I said they don't need improvement.... everything can always use improvements... however the tribunal is not broken like everyone (scratch that), the vast minority so claims.

Who are you to judge who is the vast minority and who is not? This is what I mean when I say the Tribunal attracts a certain type of person. What's the point of trying to point out flaws when you have to try to outshout the fanboys like yourself just to make a point. I didn't put anything in your mouth, I derived that from what you are saying. There is a big difference. So like I said, you say Riot is needs improvement everywhere but the Tribunal? We don't have anything left to discuss. You're bringing nothing but your blind conviction and spending all your trying to drown out anyone who disagrees with you, despite anything valid they bring up.