The guide that is going to get corki nerfed

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baloons

Member

01-23-2011

In looking at your games, seems like still using this build, wriggles, rushing BC, getting mercs then IE and starks. Seems like you are always talking teleport and ghost, unless heavy cc team and then going cleanse ghost. Are you using your corki testing runepage? Your not building any mana regen in game and your runes max you at +16 / 5 sec @ 18. I have built without mana regen beyond runes, but generally wish for mana regen by the end of the game. Manamune sucks (you need damage long before it will give it), and something silly like chalice won't fix it either, tho the MR is nice. Games were I prioritize blue buff are less of an issue, but it's hard to get often.

I am low elo, and would like to improve my game. I think I understand some of the general gameplay of higher elo - (meaning map awareness, ward, common team objectives, and pressing advantages) but I fail at playing a champ that can carry a game in solo queue. Rarely (like 1 in 30 games) will I play against a team who plays the game at a higher level, so in reality I have book knowledge and maybe 20 games played at that level :-) If I play with friends (even low level players) who can follow instructions, I have a high win rate since coordination is much easier, and pubstomping can be just that if you push advantages properly. I picked corki as the guy who can farm up and win the game with or without a good team for solo queue ranked. By the way, your farm is seriously unbelievable.

You obviously play him well and play a lot of him. I would love to see some of your gameplay / commentary. The youtube videos are great, but nothing beats live.

TL;DR
I'd like to learn more from you. Would you be up for a normal game sometime?

Ohh, finally a question. Oddly enough I find my corki games have me dealing more magic damage than physical -- that surprising / expected?


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xMedicus

Member

01-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
If Gatling Gun is Armor Reduction, and so is Black Cleaver, and Stark's Fervor... you would be effectively shredding most enemies way in to the negatives with those three debuffs, no?
Yea, I was wondering the same thing. How does Armor Penetration work again? It CAN go negative? So even if you shred their Armor pass 0, it will continue to shred more of their "Armor" and you will deal even more damage as their Armor goes more negative?

Mana Regen, Magic Resist, and Flat HP Quints are a must for Corki, only Marks are debatable. Originally, I followed this guide by using Attack Speed because it is supposed to help with last-hitting. To be honest, I don't think the 15% (9 Attack Speed runes) Attack Speed will help you as much as 9 Attack Damage or 9 Armor Penetration runes. What are your thoughts? Also, is Attack Damage better or Armor Penetration?

P.S.

Currently, this is my item build throughout the game:

Wriggle's Lantern
Mercury Tread
Black Cleaver
Infinity Edge
Bloodthirster
Frozen Mallet

If for some reason the game still hasn't ended yet, I will replace Wriggle's with something much more useful in team fights.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by xMindStormerx View Post
Yea, I was wondering the same thing. How does Armor Penetration work again? It CAN go negative? So even if you shred their Armor pass 0, it will continue to shred more of their "Armor" and you will deal even more damage as their Armor goes more negative?
Flat armor reduction will go negative, but not armor penetration. However, reduction is calculated before penetration, so it's difficult for most champions to actually achieve negative numbers. In other words, if an enemy has 30 armor, and you have Stark's Fervor and Youmuu's Ghostblade: Stark's will reduce it first to 10 armor, then Ghostblade will further penetrate the remaining 10 armor, meaning the other 10 armor penetration on the item is unused for that target, and will not go negative.

With Black Cleaver and Stark's Fervor, you have 65 armor reduction after three hits, and a lot of attack speed. With the addition of the Gatling Gun debuff which is also armor reduction, you should be taking them significantly in to the negatives if they have no armor.

What I'm not sure of is how bonus damage applies to negative armor values. If it works the same way the positive armor works... let's use -30 as an example. Assuming your Stark's/Clever combo takes them to 0, and Gatling Gun does the rest (it can max at 50 armor, I'm being conservative)

-30/(-30+100) = 42.8% increased damage

I think that sounds a bit over the top... I'll have to test this and see what comes of it.

EDIT: Just ran a practice game using nothing but Black Cleaver and Stark's Fervor.

On several Jungle Buffs I tore them down to -71 armor.
Attack Damage read 148, and I was hitting for 201-211
Roughly 40% increase in damage

On the Alistar Bot, I brought him down to -35 armor
Attack Damage read 151, and I was hitting for 194
Roughly 30% increase in damage

At a higher level on a Jungle Buff at -71 armor
Attack Damage read 154, and I was hitting for 218
Roughly a 41% increase in damage

Now that I've looked at that, I can confirm that negative armor does increase damage, though not as high as the standard armor calculation would imply - there must be some diminishing returns on it. Regardless, Starks and Black Cleaver, with Gatling Gun at max armor debuffs will provide at least a BF sword in additional damage. I also wasn't looking at the damage Gatling Gun was doing, which should have been increasing as well since its physical damage.


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baloons

Member

01-31-2011

Interesting -- I just bought armor pen marks to start getting more tier 3 runes for ad champs -- however, given that reduction is taken first

Quoting LOL wiki:
Armor penetration and armor reduction are applied in the following order:
Armor Reduction
Flat Armor Penetration
Percentage Armor Penetration

we should ask if corki's gattling gun and black cleaver will make armor pen useless..

Assuming full reduction (-50) for gg and bc (-45) odds are the average non armor stacking squishy is already negative, rendering the armor pen useless. Finally, since percentage armor pen is last -- you really have no reason to buy last whisper.. just don't :-)


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chaos7heory

Senior Member

02-08-2011

so this is the stupid guide that is making everyone buy wriggles on corki.


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GUCCIPEACEGOD

Member

02-12-2011

don't see how getting the wriggles is stupid, gives you lifesteal to stay in the lane longer, madreds procs to make it easier to farm minions and you get a free ward.


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Maxmatical

Senior Member

02-13-2011

Why build Mared's on Corki? It's just not that good an item on him.

Best build on Corki, as seen by many top tier players
Manamune
Boots
Sheen
Black Cleaver
TriForce
Banshee
BloodThirster/IE


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chaos7heory

Senior Member

02-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by techsecks View Post
don't see how getting the wriggles is stupid, gives you lifesteal to stay in the lane longer, madreds procs to make it easier to farm minions and you get a free ward.
learn to last hit instead of relying on madreds procs to get farm. and corki doesnt need lifesteal early to stay in lane. the only lifesteal you should ever get on corki is bloodthirster. best builds for corki are high AD/armor debuff builds. wriggles has really crappy AD and is a huge waste of gold. besides anyone who isnt jungling should never buy wriggles. its a niche item.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

02-13-2011

Except that Corki makes incredible use of jungle buffs, with Wriggles you grab them faster. You don't rely on Madred's proc for last-hits, you rely on the madred's proc to absorb harassment, and push your lane so you can go farm jungle creeps as well as lane creeps. It's also a cheap early boost to AD, oh, and a free ward since you're wiping creeps so fast your lane is pushed, and you don't want to be ganked. It grants that option - I don't see it as a waste at all.

Is it perfect for every team comp? No - but neither is Corki. Also, everyone isn't playing with top tier players.

I agree that high AD builds are paramount for Corki... well, Wriggles fits right in to that. Combined with it's armor, and merc treads MR, you're getting yourself a little survivability as well.

I just don't see how it's a 'waste of gold'. You're spending your gold on AD, armor, and lifesteal, with a free ward attached to it. Not exactly a waste as far as I'm concerned - just an alternate path.

Let's not forget that many recommend Triforce on Corki, which doesn't exactly fit in to the 'high AD/armor debuff' category. He can indeed use all of the stats on the item, but it really doesn't complement his bread-and-butter ability, Gatling Gun, at all. It helps with single target burst - but I'd rather use Gatling Gun and tear entire teams to shreds.


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chaos7heory

Senior Member

02-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Except that Corki makes incredible use of jungle buffs, with Wriggles you grab them faster. You don't rely on Madred's proc for last-hits, you rely on the madred's proc to absorb harassment, and push your lane so you can go farm jungle creeps as well as lane creeps. It's also a cheap early boost to AD, oh, and a free ward since you're wiping creeps so fast your lane is pushed, and you don't want to be ganked. It grants that option - I don't see it as a waste at all.

Is it perfect for every team comp? No - but neither is Corki. Also, everyone isn't playing with top tier players.

I agree that high AD builds are paramount for Corki... well, Wriggles fits right in to that. Combined with it's armor, and merc treads MR, you're getting yourself a little survivability as well.

I just don't see how it's a 'waste of gold'. You're spending your gold on AD, armor, and lifesteal, with a free ward attached to it. Not exactly a waste as far as I'm concerned - just an alternate path.

Let's not forget that many recommend Triforce on Corki, which doesn't exactly fit in to the 'high AD/armor debuff' category. He can indeed use all of the stats on the item, but it really doesn't complement his bread-and-butter ability, Gatling Gun, at all. It helps with single target burst - but I'd rather use Gatling Gun and tear entire teams to shreds.
Need help to get red buff? Your jungler should help you with that (just like jungler's who give blue buff to an anivia or another mage on the team who needs it more) and later game corki can get it himself without need any madreds procs. On the point of the trinity force: Manamune + trinity force + banshee's veil build gives a lot of AD because of manamune's passive(works the same on ezreal) and you get a lot of the procs from spamming your R during teamfights so yes it's a good item on him. Like i said earlier there is no reason for anyone who isn't jungling to buy a wriggles. Saying it's a free ward is a dumb argument. Wards are extremely cheap. Wriggles is no high AD item. Even for people who buy it while jungling, you're supposed to sell it late game because the item is actually pretty bad. It only helps with a better sustained early game jungling.

Buying wriggles for the armor means you're playing your AD carry the wrong way. Positioning when playing range carries is everything. Always make yourself inaccessible and Corki is one of the champs that does that really well. The only defensive items you should ever need your AD carry are banshee's veil and hexdrinker as it is generally easier for mages to poke at you with their range. Preventing yourself from getting CC'ed is the best thing you can do for your defense as an AD carry. If someone like Xin Zhao or Master Yi catches up to you, the armor from wriggles will do absolutely nothing to save you.