What would you do if you faced this team setup?

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KnightOfTheDeath

Senior Member

08-05-2011

Note that the finalized version is there,feel free to post .

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...ightofthedeath




Mid AP Galio FIXED* Solo top Galio
Gragas Support early (gp/5 items)/AP late Bot
Veigar Bot
Solo top Warvick Off tank DPS FIXED* Solo mid Urgot
Jungle Maokai Main Tank AP

I mean...They would wreck you hard if they played this way...Here are your options
Banshee's Veil? Nope,Maokai's Sappling Toss and Galio's E skill break it while having HUGE range ...plus they're AOE
Stick together? If you do so...Expect a full stun from Veigar and then **** happens..
Split up? Nope,if you do so your carry will get either suppressed or snares by the extraordinary range of Maokai's root and WW's ult.
Harass? Nope,they would outharass you a lot and even by doing so,you still get in range of Maokai's Snare and WW's ult.
Go closer? Nope,too much AOE stuns...
Stay in range? Nope,2 biggest range CC...
Stack MR? If you do so,expect Veigar to get Void Staff and wreck you more...
Quicksilver Sash? Nope,Even if you cleanse out of WW's ult Maokai will root you and you will die.
Gank? Same as going in close range...
Stun WW? Even a 0.1 second CC is enough to engage with Veigar's stun and combo it all the way.
How can Gragas go Support!? Unfortunately,Galio can't afford to tank/support and deals too little damage with ultimate...Even if Gragas is very viable as AP,His skill tools allow him to go support/AP...I mean,the AS debuff , Slow , KNock back...That's called utility.And he is the best champion who can feed Veigar in duo queing since Maokai jungles...the Slow,man the slow...And after lvl 6...Veigar's Stun+Gragas's ult would be fearsome.

EDIT 1: I forgot to add their roles,my bad.
EDIT 2: I appreacite a quick feedback,but please try not to spam same ideas that others have suggested neither giving away a quick reply,take the time to think a little bit please! Which I took.
Edit 3:Finally managed to counter all your statements,enjoy ^^ Can I get some upvotes please? I took a hard time to write all of this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by enderkin View Post
Early QSS = WW ult / Veigar stun down + everybody's damage just got cut 10-20%. 2nd negatron means they have to build Void Staff, and none of those characters will do so until much later in the game. (WW and Maokai just won't, probably--Galio will more likely go for Abyssal, Gragas has no money because he is support, Veigar most likely candidate)

Gragas is pointless without AP except for ultimate; don't bunch up. Same goes for Galio--you can poke him more than he can poke you, and if anyone on your team any on-hit disrupt Galio loses.
Jungle Maokai is mediocre, protect your carries from his inevitable attempt to initiate.
Focus Veigar, easy kill with any focus--dodge the stun and you win.
WW and Maokai are only people actually in melee range.
Vayne can kill everybody on this team without any issue.

That's a pretty developped idea and I will try my best to counter these,
QSS: WW doesn't ult on you,maokai's root suffise...And if you cleanse out of this root,WW ults...understand?
Jungle Maokai: A Gank is not supposed to result in a kill,while I doubt that his ganking abilities are bad,there is no proof stating it and just reading these skillsets aswell as the witness of a Maokai main player,I assure you that I can prove you wrong.
Support Gragas : He is absolutely not pointless without AP.This basis may be from Dreamhack tourney but his versatility and the role that I give to him allows him to benefit his team,especially Veigar.As you said,Only his ultimate is effective but this suffises.
Now let me explain you my basis,He is supposed to kind of BodyGuard Veigar,the spammable slows allow him to do so,All I want to benefit in the front is from his ultimate.
And as I said before,without a full explanation of how their roles are filled,I will not be able to convince you,so I guess I should do it pretty fast,just give me some time.But let's return to Gragas's role.After WW/Maokai succesfully CCes a carry or a mage from the ennemy team,Gragas can ulti,If it is possible for Veigar to AOE stun them meanwhile,he also has the option to wait and ulti.If galio gets the time to go in and ulti,he can spare his ultimate,and do it only when Galio's Ult ends to split up The ennemy team in order to have this burst team retreat and get their cooldowns back if the ennemy team still lives.If everything goes according to this plan,the ennemy team will have to go to base,if they do not require doing so,once the lowest skill's cooldowns are back,they will get wrecked.
Gragas's role,except his ultimate and barrel toss which reduces AS,is as I said above,to kind of body guard Veigar.He is the only barrier that prevents an ennemy assasin to succesfully kill Veigar,Due to the low cooldown of Barrel Toss (Q) he should be able to reduce the damage output of the assasin,if he is melee,he should be able to Slow him down by a lot.That is the role of Gragas.Either you kill him but Veigar kills you or you fail.
Now as I was writing this,I found a point countering the MR stack.As I said above,if they survive you will briefly retreat untill your cooldowns are back,but this is only possible if they got huge MR,even so,once the cooldowns are back and the plan went well,they will still get wrecked,now I expect from the time I took to write all of this,to have either your agreement stating that I've got a point,either to shut down my basis by finding a counter.

This thread was closer and here I bring it again,
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...1027843&page=7
Read it all,and post here your thoughts.

Well,looks like someone offered a counter to your MR stack.Thanks to him I have found a strategy showing how pitiful your MR is hehe


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aprxxx View Post
Ok I've read all the stuff about MR and got an option to counter it.As people say it will not end in one burst,
Then is there anything not allowing this team setup to briefly retreat to get his cooldowns back? they have a huge amount of CC and even if it doesn't end in one burst,the opponent's team will be at least 2/4 hp down with probably a carry dead.Thus,they will have two options,
either to B which would allow this team to either split push or main push 2 towers.By so,I mean Gragas/WW go pushing while others take care of dragon or main push.Galio and Maokai are good examples of main pushers.If a split push occurs,they should either duo like this, Galio/WW = Maokai/Gragas. Why? Galio offers a spd buff and bursts minions down while WW easyly takes care of turret.Meanwhile,Both maokai and gragas has free flash skills,A sappling toss with a root allows them to do so.Which would make'em move pretty fast.Then veigar? Let him get a blue buff or base.
Or chase them,which wouldn't be a good piece of choice since they will prolly get their lowest cooldowns back.
EDit4: Check my profile,Including the AP item gp/5 results in having 104 AP which allows to do decent damage with deathfire grasp (when u get it)


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KnightOfTheDeath

Senior Member

08-05-2011

Note:
After some reflection concerning the AP heavyness,I have though of remplacing Warvick by Urgot.
What I needed was someone beefy on the front,and after analyzing the damage reduction output made by galio's Armor/MR buff aswell as Maokai's damage reduction in addition of Urgot's ultimate resists buff was very sufisient for him to deal damage in the front and still live as long as a pure tank

This is the prolongation of the following threads:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...ightofthedeath
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...1027843&page=7


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KnightOfTheDeath

Senior Member

08-05-2011

up


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VengefulMilk

Senior Member

08-05-2011

FoN Thornmail Sunfire Cape, and I'd tank the **** out of them all.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

08-05-2011

Kill the Veigar and suddenly the team has low damage output.


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The Panda Mayne

Member

08-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightOfTheDeath View Post
Mid AP Galio FIXED* Solo top Galio
Gragas Support early (gp/5 items)/AP late Bot
Veigar Bot
Solo top Warvick Off tank DPS FIXED* Solo mid Urgot
Jungle Maokai Main Tank AP

I mean...They would wreck you hard if they played this way...Here are your options
Banshee's Veil? Nope,Maokai's Sappling Toss and Galio's E skill break it while having HUGE range ...plus they're AOE
Stick together? If you do so...Expect a full stun from Veigar and then **** happens..
Split up? Nope,if you do so your carry will get either suppressed or snares by the extraordinary range of Maokai's root and WW's ult.
Harass? Nope,they would outharass you a lot and even by doing so,you still get in range of Maokai's Snare and WW's ult.
Go closer? Nope,too much AOE stuns...
Stay in range? Nope,2 biggest range CC...
Stack MR? If you do so,expect Veigar to get Void Staff and wreck you more...
Quicksilver Sash? Nope,Even if you cleanse out of WW's ult Maokai will root you and you will die.
Gank? Same as going in close range...
Stun WW? Even a 0.1 second CC is enough to engage with Veigar's stun and combo it all the way.
How can Gragas go Support!? Unfortunately,Galio can't afford to tank/support and deals too little damage with ultimate...Even if Gragas is very viable as AP,His skill tools allow him to go support/AP...I mean,the AS debuff , Slow , KNock back...That's called utility.And he is the best champion who can feed Veigar in duo queing since Maokai jungles...the Slow,man the slow...And after lvl 6...Veigar's Stun+Gragas's ult would be fearsome.
I think the counter to this would be during the character selection. Making sure you pick characters with silence such as fiddle could be very useful. Making sure your dps bring cleanse and pick up qss/bv would also help considerably, even though there are poking spells to disrupt banshee's (a good player would make sure to dodge such spells when possible). Another strong pick would be amumu because he could easily shut down the whole team avoiding the disruption of galio and gragas and allowing the quick focusing of the dps, mainly veigar and urgot I would assume.
So I suppose in short, the counter to this would be hard cc, stuns and silences, along with agile dps (w. cleanse/qss/bv) to quickly focus the damage on the team leaving it hard to kill, but also leaving them unable to get a kill.


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Dubledox

Senior Member

08-05-2011

Get a force of nature for everyone on your team, bam AP is useless. Focus WW first and CC him, bam AD useless.


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Umbrex

Senior Member

08-05-2011

Build MR and then focus WW/Urgot.

Or just troll with a 5-tank team. Oh yes~


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Eppa

Senior Member

08-05-2011

The Carry/Support bot meta is like the super counter to this. It will deny you farm and they will get farmed.

There is a reason why the meta looks like it does unless you have a comp that can deal with versatility and early game strength of carry/support bot you will get amazingly out farmed.

Especially as Galio does not either exert any pressure to keep their tanky dps from missing a single last hit making him/her easily jump onto veigar nullifying him from focusing any key target.


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RamenL

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Senior Member

08-05-2011

Lol y so easy, Im going to be a 1500 elo player by the time 12 hours from now ends, currently 1425 last night I was 1290 I won 13-15 ranked games and lost only 3, let me tell u some fatal flaws.. Before we start I would like to tell you skill matters A LOT more then team comp..

Maokai & gallio are mostly for countering AP chars. Gragas is just good for harassing and controlling team battles positioning. Veigar is a good nuke with a stun, WW is good for his suppression and consistent damage along with his long survivability.

Taric and Miss fortune will easily beat Veigar and gragas bot.
Amumu Jungle will be able to close the gap in team battles so you wont be able to harass.
Nasus solo top would easily beat any of those 5 that u put up there. And in team battles he will easily take out 2 of your people as all you got is magic damage.
Cho solo mid will also easily beat anyone you put mid. Incase u dont know in the previous solomid tourney EVERY match I played Cho was banned.

Cho
Catalyst, Merc Treads, Banshee, Abysal Scepter, Force of Nature, Rylias, Guardian Angel

Nasus
Sheen,Merc Treads, Banshee, Frozen Mallet, Atmas, Force of Nature

Miss Fortune
Dorans Blade, Dorans Blade, Merc Treads, Blood Thirster, Black Cleaver, Banshee, Force of Nature, Guardian angel

Renekton
Dorans Blade, Merc Treads, Frozen Mallet, Force Of Nature, Atmas, Guardian Angel, Spirit Visage

Amumu
Cloth Armor, Merc Treads, Guardian Angel, Force of Nature, Banshee, Abyssal Scepter, Warmogs

Taric
Just build support with a Banshee and high AP...

In team battles the whole team will be coated with 200+ magic resist.. Amumu close the gap with an ult cho walks through everyone and nukes the Urgot and feasts him. then its 4v5.. All magic vs 5 people with 200 MR each.. GG


Anyway, your team will have very low damage and unable to win vsing a team with 3 tanks that do a lot of damage like Renekton, Nasus, and Cho easily do more damage then galio and maokai. Veigars nuke wont 1 hit anyone but MF but with like 5 stuns, 2 slows, and cho's beast silence ur the one whos going to need banshee veil.


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