Ryze, get RoA or not?

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MagicPizzaBr

Junior Member

03-06-2012

I normally don't buy RoA, but during a normal match my entire team said that I should buy it, when I said that I don't like to buy it they almost tried to kill me!!!!

Is RoA really good for Ryze? I normally don't buy it and I get a good mana in late game and a very high ability power too...

This is my normal build (sometimes I change, depends if I'm mid, if I'm farming good and the enemy team):

Meki pendant --> normal boot --> tear of the Goddess --> Glacial Shroud (or Catalyst the protector) --> Catalyst the protector (or Glacial Shroud) --> Archangel Staff --> Banshee's Veil --> Frozen Heart --> (normally) Rabadon's Deathcap --> Lich Bane or Archangel Staff or Void Staff or Rabadon's Deathcap.

hope that my build isn't bad for Ryze xD

In the end I don't know what is good to buy, but when I do this build my Ryze gets a lot of mana and he gets a good AP, I see no reason to buy RoA, can someone help me?

Sorry for my bad english, I'm from Brazil and enlgish is not my native language...


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Go Explode

Senior Member

03-06-2012

I like getting RoA with ryze...but some players replace it with void staff also I wouldn't get Lich Bane on him just my opinion


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Deathfairy

Senior Member

03-06-2012

Why do these threads keep popping up again and again. This has been covered many many times but here is short version.

Ryze CORE item, that he HAS to get no exceptions:

Boots
Tear (Notice NOT AA, just tear)
Banshies
Frozen heart.

Last 2 spots can be filled with: (in best to worse order)

WotA
Abysal/GA
Another AA
RoA
AA upgrade (last thing you do)

Ryze scales with Mana so pure Ap items like Rabadon is BAD. Lichbane is horrid you have low Ap so Ap proc is bad.

Now about RoA, it has tons of mana hp and AP. It is a good item on ryze in theory. and would be a great 6th item IF and only IF it didn't require 10 min charge time. Building RoA early is bad because it delays your CORE, which puts you behind more then minor benefits of having charged RoA over something else would.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

03-06-2012

Your build looks pretty good.

The core is as deathfairy says. Boots+3pots is more common nowdays because Ryze has to dodge all those skillshots! So he doesnt really need the mana regen as much since the bad guys are almost always chicken**** and hide way back and throw ****.

So boots+3, then tear, then Catalyst. The catalyst gives a lot of health and mana regen and makes you a lot tougher. Its decent on its own statwise, but gives huge sustain AND builds into Banshee later.
In general rushing the Shroud is worse than catalyst because Ryze usualy doesn't need the armor or CDR quite yet since its still laning phase.


So eventually youve got sorc shoes, tear, catalyst, shroud. Upgrade to BANSHEES. This is minimal cost and gives a spell shield, and a good boost in HP/MP. Youve now got armor/MR/CDR/mana/health.

NOW, you have quite a few options on how to proceed: These are game-dependent and vary:

a) Frozen heart upgrade - armor+aura+5% CDR.
b) Archangels upgrade- pure offensive upgrade. cost effective at 3k mana pool.
c) Will of Ancients - AP/vamp sharing ideally. Vamp is pretty good on its own, though expensive.
d) Abyssal Scepter - vs heavy AP. Gives offense too.
e) Rod of Ages - kind of weak but one of the few decent health upgrades.



-----------
As for Rod...

In theory the rod seems great for Ryze, except that the AP is underutilized somewhat. However Ryze really does need to get that Shroud and Banshees fairly quick to be combat-ready. That gives him health, maxed CDR, and armor/MR.
The rod tends to delay this a lot, making ryze pretty useless after laning phase has ended.


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til Days of Blue

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Senior Member

03-06-2012

Looks pretty good on the build.

Although I will never finish archangel before I finish with my Frozen Heart and Banshee, get WoTA rather than Rabadon, I will also never buy lich bane as Ryze's AP is usually pretty low, a voidstaff is much better in term of use

If you are going to use lich bane, go with champions like Veigar, Sion, or Gragas.


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Dwarfling

Senior Member

03-06-2012

RoA ends up not being good because your Catalyst will be used for a Banshee's Veil which gives you better stats, as the (60+20)AP on RoA is really inefficient on Ryze compared to MR+Shield which lets you win trades vs other champions. Getting another Catalyst and building into RoA later delays you from getting other items you might need like vamp from Revolver/WotA or MPen from Void Staff/Abyssal, etc...


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Sunbabies

Member

03-06-2012

I agree that stacking off of AP isnt great on Ryze, so i'd say your build is fine besides the death cap. c:


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Mambazo

Senior Member

03-06-2012

I'd say ryze's core is 5 items, void staff should be in there, the magic penetration will help your damage more than anything else will if they have ANYONE on the enemy team over 100 MR.


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MorikTheMad

Senior Member

03-06-2012

With abyssal, sorc shoes, mpen marks, and your E, you penetrate 73 flat MR already.

If you replace abyssal with a void staff, you lose the MR, your team loses 20 flat MR reduction, you do less damage to people with <100 MR, and you don't do that much additional damage until you start getting to very high resists. At 150 MR, void staff vs abyssal, void staff penetrates about 20 additional.
(53 flat leaves 97, penetrating 40% of that leaves about 60 (slightly more).
150 - 73 = 78.

Now, your E isn't always active on an enemy. So without it you are looking at: 150 - 29 = 121 * .6 = 72.6 leftover when using void.

150 - 49 = 101. A difference of 28 MR for the shots while your enemy isn't affected by your E.
And that is for a 150 MR enemy.

The squishies are not going to be up at 150 MR for the most part. Your main targets are generally at 100 MR and below. Which favors the abyssal scepter. Not to mention, you get MR, and the MR reduction benefits your whole team.


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Jibaku

Junior Member

03-06-2012

The problem with RoA isn't that it's bad for Ryze. It's just that you'll have a really hard time fitting it in. Your early Catalyst should be turned into Banshee's 99% of the time. Late game, you'll struggle to get RoA fully charged up and it costs an awful lot. Not to mention, it lacks utility. There's a point in the game where stacking mana is no longer very useful for Ryze - the same point where you look for items that complement Ryze instead.

Your best last few items include
- Will of the Ancients: typically you'll get this 5th, because you'll want the sustain for teamfights. With ~4k mana and 38%+ CDR Ryze can stick around for quite a while. I personally always build this on Ryze because it synergizes so well with his kit. Not to mention the aura.
- Abyssal Scepter: I typically get this with Sorcerer's shoes for magic resist reduction aura and extra Magic resist. It's a pretty strong item.
- Void Staff: If I decide to go Merc Treads for my boots, I'll usually go with this - if they have a good amount of Magic Resist on their team.
- Rylai's: When my team can't make good use of Abyssal Scepter aura and/or I'm facing a fair amount of melee's. Or if I want to make myself tankier in general. Or if someone else already has an Abyssal Scepter. The AP isn't too useful but the HP and the slow are (if it wasn't for the slow this would be an inferior RoA on Ryze). Ryze's Q applies the full 35% slow and with his machine-gun spellcasts you can keep the it easily. His E, though applying the 15% slow, can bounce around the entire enemy team and spread it.
- Archangel's Staff: Eventually you'll have to upgrade your tear into something (after you finish the rest of the items, of course). Don't get Manamume.

Also don't get Rabadon's or Lich's Bane. They're extremely expensive and really don't complement Ryze much at all. The fact that Ryze doesn't build AP makes both of their passives unappealing. Ryze's AP scaling is pretty mediocre (you could argue that his E has 1.05 scaling if it hits the same opponent 3 times, but...) to make Rabadon's actually worth it. Lich Bane's slight movement speed boost and magic resist is nice but overall the item really doesn't complement Ryze much at all.