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Ryze: Q or E?

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MorikTheMad

Senior Member

03-02-2012

While health is better later, I'm willing to give it up for the boost to sustain in the laning phase. Health/lvl isn't a bad option though.

I don't think spellvamp in masteries is a good option. What do you get in defense? I assume you aren't getting movespeed. The 3% movespeed is a big deal. Its 2/3rds as much movespeed as the MS quints. On top of the MS quints, and on top of the speed from utility, you move really fast. Not just for a ryze--you move really fast. 339 without boots. 394 or something ridiculous like that with just T1 boots. 416 with T2 boots. (While above 70% health)

3% spellvamp is nothing. Early game, you aren't doing nearly enough spell damage for it to make a difference. Late game, it does help a bit, but not nearly as much as being able to move around 3% faster, and having 3% more HP.

And even with merc treads, you still get 7.5% more tenacity. Not bad at all. Much better than a piddly amount of spell vamp, considering that it comes with a 3% boost to your max HP too. (And can help against jungler ganks before you get your treads)


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corallein

Senior Member

03-02-2012

I've actually been re-evaluating some things lately - my Ryze mastery page is pretty old. I think right now I'd prefer to go 0/21/9 getting Vigor instead of Spell Vamp.
Yes, I do get Initiator, but I'm undecided on whether Swiftness is worth taking - the per-point gains from it are pretty bad, and 1 MP5 per point for Meditation is quite nice.


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RusMolot

Member

03-03-2012

Wait so for utility if you max spell vamp you get 11 used points, 12 goes to buff?

Also I like to get movement on Utility, so that makes 0/16/14, is the movement not that necessary?

Okay so I have 0/21/7

My utility has 3 in expanded mind, 1pt in summoner insight (don't really know if good hands or improved recall is worth a point)

3 in meditation

If I was consistent about picking up blue buff, I would probably want to get Runic Affinity, but I am bad at paying attention to buffs, and after all that, still one point left to use, two if I dont get runic affinity. Probably best thing to put the 1-2 pts is movement in utility, nothing else seems to make sense although, movement is so slow, 1 in attack for summoners wrath might be good if I throw down exhaust for a lvl 3-6 kill maybe? last point in -1 dmg from minions is good for early game fights maybe?


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MorikTheMad

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Here is how I do it:

http://leaguecraft.com/masteries/0000000000000000003304301000330011030400001000000?

I think the 2% movespeed is nice in utility. 3 mp5 is ok... but I don't find mana to usually be a problem early. Sometimes I do go OOM at inopportune times though.

3 mp5 will net you one extra Q every 2 minutes.

2% movespeed is 6 movespeed unbooted: the difference between 339 and 333 starting movespeed.
But keep in mind that if you drop below 70% health, you also lose your 3% initiator bonus.
I prefer to have 9.5% movespeed when healthy, and 6.5% unhealthy, without the mana regen, instead of 7.5% healthy, 4.5% unhealthy, with an extra Q every 2 minutes.

The movespeed always matters, the mana regen only matters if you get a really dumb opponent who lets you harass the hell out of them before you get tear, and so you go OOM. This shouldn't really happen... if its even trades, don't be doing them all the time, wait for your jungler once you damage them a bit. If they do more dmg on trades, don't be trading much, if at all, unless your jungler is incoming. If you do more dmg, good luck getting in range of them often enough to go OOM before you have gold for tear.

Yes, you can also go oom after you get your tear, and of course the extra mana is helpful, but I find I'm usually ok. I'd try without the mana regen and see if you feel you need it.


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RusMolot

Member

03-05-2012

That makes sense. I just played Ryze without movement masteries in utility, and he was REALLY fast. I played against Morgana on mid, and she never got an ulti stun or cage on me. I always get clarity for Ryze, although if I spam my skills a little less, flash+exhaust might be a better choice. With my fast movement and clarity I ran her flat into the tower, our jungler was pretty bad, never came around for a gank, so I ended up losing midgame to her just because she has insane farm from her puddle.


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MorikTheMad

Senior Member

03-05-2012

I usually run flash + ignite, but I've also been playing around with flash + heal (and moving a point from armor in the defense tree into summoner's resolve).

flash + ghost is also reasonable on newer ryze's, if you aren't using many movement boosters. (I.e., going 9/0/21, no MS quints.)

I haven't really tried with exhaust. Usually what I try to do is get my opponent lowish on health, and if they don't go back, I'll flash in, W->Q->ignite->E->Q and they are gone. With the superior speed from getting ALL the movement buffs, so long as you flashed moderately close to them, they can't get away from that last Q. Of course, this doesn't work if they are right by their tower.

Heal isn't bad... I tried it for a bit. Certainly makes you a pain to gank. I missed the finishing potential of ignite in the early game though.


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RusMolot

Member

03-05-2012

Woops slow post.

Not sure about flash ghost, seems redundant, i have run it before and usually if you feel the need to jam both, you are trying to run away, and chances are you will die anyways.

Ignite has good early game damage, and great late game vamp denial, so it. Can be considered a survivability item for late game in case you get ambushed by their high vamp ad carry, but I would rather snare them and run, maybe even exhaust them if they catch up.

Clarity lets me spam my skills without worrying so much about mana. With the low CD on Ryze's ult, this means I can ult away waves of minions without a care in the world about mana, but this is a tradeoff off farm vs kill potential.


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MorikTheMad

Senior Member

03-05-2012

Clarity isn't all that wonderful...

At lvl 9, say, you have:
Lvl 5 Q (70 mana)
Lvl 2 W (95 mana)
Lvl 1 E (60 mana)

If you ult out on a wave, You are presumably going:
Q->R->E->Q->W->Q (pre CDR stuff)
Or something similar.

Thats 210 + 95 + 60 = 365 mana.

At lvl 9, clarity returns 430 mana.
So that gets you one extra wave cleared, and an extra Q.

I don't think you get enough mana out of it to be worth it.

Ghost + Flash can be useful, as I said, if you don't have the movespeed buffs. Even with them, you can stagger them. Use one to escape, then use the other while one is on CD. Or use flash to gank someone/get a kill on your lane oppoenent, and still have ghost as an escape.

Heal is also pretty interesting. You get a reasonable amount of health back. Once you hit midgame, this makes you pretty ridiculous, as you start getting pretty tanky with your armor & MR.

Late game heal is reasonable in teamfights too. Ignite & exhaust aren't bad either. Clarity is pretty useless later on. Ghost & flash can both be useful later on.


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faeriececil

Senior Member

03-05-2012

q for harass when in LANING phrase

e for teamfight


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RusMolot

Member

03-05-2012

Besides clearing out an extra wave, getting manna crystal+ 2 hpots gets you better sustain with clarity than 1hpot and 1 mpot. If you can stay on your lane a bit longer than your enemy, you can potentially get an experience/ farming edge over them. I agree it can be rather useless endgame, but on the other hand you can supplement thr rest of your team with mana at a critical moment, which means after two teams have been skirmishing for a while, you are both low on mana, then bam, your whole team has enough mana to burst, you can easily win a team fight, this is particularly common when you are playing def.

Health also seems like a good choice in the perspective you put it in, I will have to try it.