Should there be Stun on hit tems?

Yes, of course 10 11.90%
Yes, but they need to be Restricted 8 9.52%
no. no no no. Never, ever ever 66 78.57%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

Petition AGAINST Stun-On-hit items.

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Dragonien

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Senior Member

10-17-2009

I remember that i saw a developer mention stun on hit items in a previous thread. I dont know how many people played dota, but if you remember heroes like Troll warlord and such, you can easily see how those type of items can very easily Screw up a balanced and enjoyable game.

can you imagine if Yi, jax, or Warrick. or someone else with super fast attack speed, had a 20% chance to stun you with every hit? Yi in particulay with his double strike.

Even if it might not be gamebreaking in itself, it would definatly need some heavily moderating factor. like "cannot occur more than once every 5 seconds" or something of similar effect. as thers so much CC in the game as it is now, if a melee hero can just completely lock someone else down in perma stun... Well. Itd be Dota all over again.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

10-17-2009

Depends on the duration of the stun and whether or not they normalize proc rates, or leave them a flat percent.

Short duration and small-ish (sub 15) percent chance would not be game breaking, where as longer duration or high (20+) percent chance stuns would be game breaking.


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Dragonien

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Senior Member

10-17-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo7 View Post
Depends on the duration of the stun and whether or not they normalize proc rates, or leave them a flat percent.

Short duration and small-ish (sub 15) percent chance would not be game breaking, where as longer duration or high (20+) percent chance stuns would be game breaking.
even when several heroes can get themselves up to 2, sometimes nearly 3 attacks a second. and a certain nameless hero has a chance of those attacks being double attacks, that can both proc the stun?


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Razzle Dazzle

Adjudicator

10-17-2009

Yes stun items are a bit ridiculous... I wouldint mind ministun but stun is definutly to strong


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JayceJa

Member

10-17-2009

having something that strong % based at all would be gamebreaking regardless of any limits, and the lower the % , the MORE gamebreaking it is, because it is less reliable and more luck based

instead of a 20% chance to stun for 1 second with an internal cooldown of 2 seconds or something, it should be stuns for 1 second on attack, interal cooldown of 5 seconds, or something like stuns once every 5 attacks, counter resets after not attacking for 3 seconds


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dreanor

Member

10-17-2009

There are already far too many stuns in this game, I think every other hero has a method of imobilising another player, while not all of them are 'stuns' per-se I think having on hit items that stop a character from responding would be far to imbalanced and that players would begin to think that having stun on hit items would be mandatory. This would put casters who don't attack at a disadvantage and give ranged heroes an edge. However, considering that all melee hereos have a method of engaging a ranged enemy (I think) giving them the opportunity to stun from covering a large amount of ground would tip the balance of the game. Imagine Jax with a stun on hit item ?

TL;DR: Would make game boring and repetitive, against developers mantra. Tips game in favor of Melee heroes.


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TenToedPete1

Adjudicator

10-18-2009

Quote:
having something that strong % based at all would be gamebreaking regardless of any limits, and the lower the % , the MORE gamebreaking it is, because it is less reliable and more luck based

instead of a 20% chance to stun for 1 second with an internal cooldown of 2 seconds or something, it should be stuns for 1 second on attack, interal cooldown of 5 seconds, or something like stuns once every 5 attacks, counter resets after not attacking for 3 seconds
I think items with a % chance to proc should be changed from a flat % to a PPM (procs per minute) system. If you dont know what that means, it was basically the way quite a few effects from WoW were calculated to balance different attack speeds.

For example, crusader enchant (chance on attack to heal and gain bonus strength for 7 seconds) was a 2 PPM, meaning that regardless of attackspeed, if you were autoattacking the target for a minute, the enchant should proc twice. If your weapon speed (attack speed) was 3.8 seconds then you would hit the target less times each minute, so the chance per individual attack for it to proc would be higher. If you had an attack speed of 1.3 you would be attacking very fast, so the actual chance for it to proc per hit would be much lower, but over a period of time would equal out. Higher proc rates such as fiery enchant (chance on attack to hit for minor damage) were something like 8 PPM, which on a weapon with a slow attack speed was a much much higher chance to proc, (with a 3.8 speed weapon this became roughly 40% chance per hit to proc, but with a 1.3 speed weapon was around it was around 15% only).

What this could mean for LoL is that items such as phage, and any others in the future that would have a proc effect that was not on every attack would have equal chances to proc over a given timeframe of attacking, but champions with huge attackspeeds would not be garaunteed to perma proc, and champions with slow attackspeed would not be so random with procs


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Dragonien

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Senior Member

10-18-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenToedPete View Post
I think items with a % chance to proc should be changed from a flat % to a PPM (procs per minute) system. If you dont know what that means, it was basically the way quite a few effects from WoW were calculated to balance different attack speeds.

For example, crusader enchant (chance on attack to heal and gain bonus strength for 7 seconds) was a 2 PPM, meaning that regardless of attackspeed, if you were autoattacking the target for a minute, the enchant should proc twice. If your weapon speed (attack speed) was 3.8 seconds then you would hit the target less times each minute, so the chance per individual attack for it to proc would be higher. If you had an attack speed of 1.3 you would be attacking very fast, so the actual chance for it to proc per hit would be much lower, but over a period of time would equal out. Higher proc rates such as fiery enchant (chance on attack to hit for minor damage) were something like 8 PPM, which on a weapon with a slow attack speed was a much much higher chance to proc, (with a 3.8 speed weapon this became roughly 40% chance per hit to proc, but with a 1.3 speed weapon was around it was around 15% only).

What this could mean for LoL is that items such as phage, and any others in the future that would have a proc effect that was not on every attack would have equal chances to proc over a given timeframe of attacking, but champions with huge attackspeeds would not be garaunteed to perma proc, and champions with slow attackspeed would not be so random with procs
where are you getting this information? unless theydrastically changed something recently, all of WoWs stuff like Windfury wep, crusader, black magic, fiery, and all that just had an internal cooldown. people would say "it usually goes off like X times per minute" but i cant even really figure out how that is supposed to work.

cause like... if its always going to proc twice a minute, how does it decide which hit procs? if its just the first 2 hits each minute then thats just dumb.

they all just have a % chance to proc when you attack, and when it goes off it has a hidden cooldown untill it can happen again.


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OctopusDropkick

Senior Member

10-18-2009

It's a terrible idea. Carriers should not have major CC.


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TenToedPete1

Adjudicator

10-18-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonien View Post
where are you getting this information? unless theydrastically changed something recently, all of WoWs stuff like Windfury wep, crusader, black magic, fiery, and all that just had an internal cooldown. people would say "it usually goes off like X times per minute" but i cant even really figure out how that is supposed to work.

cause like... if its always going to proc twice a minute, how does it decide which hit procs? if its just the first 2 hits each minute then thats just dumb.

they all just have a % chance to proc when you attack, and when it goes off it has a hidden cooldown untill it can happen again.

its how stuff worked back in vanilla. i have not played serriously since early TBC, and didnt follow the change of mechanics, so it may be different now.

I think your overlooking the calculations i did, or i did them wrong. Pretty much an ability with a 2 procs per minute would calculate the % chance to proc per attack based on weapon speed. It was not actually a garaunteed 2 procs every minute, it was just a way to balance procs with different attackspeed weapons, so faster weapons would not get a much better return out of procs.

If an effect was 2 procs per minute, then to calculate your actual chance on attack to proc the effect, the calculation was to figure out how many attacks you would preform in a minute; 60 / attack speed. Then work out the percentage per attack for it to proc; 2 / (attacks per 60 seconds) * 100.

So for a 4 second attack speed, its 60/4 = 15. (2/15)*100 = 13.3% chance on attack to proc.

and for a 1.3 speed attack weapon, it is 60/1.3 = 46.2. (2/46.2)*100 = 4.3% chance on attack to proc


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