Riot, lack of skill, and sellback rates

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Sakagami0

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Senior Member

07-28-2010

The Intro
SO basically I read this(recommend you read this, honestly) article and thought that the item builds in game are really really linear. What I mean is, when you get an item, you tend to only get that item to build it into something better and usually never sell the thing. Because of this, most character's aren't optimized to be able to use the best items they can get w/o sacrificing late game item builds.

The Problem
You should all know what I'm talking about, when you get an item, you already had the ending in mind like, Oh I got Giant's belt and Blasting ward, I'm planning to get Rylais. If the game wasn't the way it is where sell back rates are 50%, you would be able to get, lets say, Sorc boots and Chalice, sell those back to get the ingredients for Rylais.

Preposition
No I'm not proposing that Sell back rates be 100%, but shift it to around 80%-90% or something (with the exception of Potions and Doran's items and Gold generating items- those should be lower)

What this means -more competitive game play. Also means Elo won't be as random.
Since items in Lol hold such high value when determining how well a champion is going to do this would mean more dynamic gameplay where champions would be able to take on the role best suiting the situation, as well as something else I like- yes, more skill to be able to judge the situation and get items accordingly.
For example, many champions have AP ratios on skills where they are not even necessary, like Panth and Tryn, both of them right now are always built AD, even though Panth's stun has AP ratio's and Tryn's Spin has AP ratio's. With this new system of sell back rates, both Tryn and Panth can go AP early for more dynamic strategies between lane mates and even teams.

Why did I post this?
Because I thought, this game needed some more places where skill is required :P


Edit- And I realized my example has down syndrome, but Im not good at that kind of stuff :P.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosecutor Godot View Post
I really disagree with this. Setting the sellback rate to 90% would not encourage thinking when buying.
Seems to be the best argument against this, but I say NO!.

No by doing this you need to watch what you buy MORE carefully, while less prone to buying mistakes, this lets
1. Newbs get better faster by testing out more builds
2. Let pros use counters on other pros.

Take a game of Starcraft for example. When you see Zergs building mass Zerglings and you are Terran, you get Hellions, etc.


an example "Let say, you are Yi, faced against another Yi. The other Yi got fed a bit more than you did. Now you have no hopes of defeating the other Yi one-on-one and in a team fight, the other Yi can easily focus you with out repercussions (if both teams focus the opposing Yi) because he is clearly superior. That sucks. Just because that Yi got fed off of some of your incompetent team mates, you now are repressed by the other Yi and can't do anything about it (unless they are stupid). Thats the kind of thing that annoys me- complete, unrestricted, snowballing.

Is this a fool proof plan? Nope. If you down vote I would like to know why you did so.

-Sakagami0

TL;DR Bump up sell back rates.

Ps if you are wondering about and Doran's items- Doran's items are generally the best tier 1 items solely because they can't build into anything. So that would mean that if Doran's items had lets say 90% sell back, it would be best for people to only stack Doran's items which would not be fun.


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S0lidsnack

Member

07-28-2010

This isn't actually a terrible idea. I'm still not sure if there would be many instances I would sell my equipment back even if this was implemented but it would be nice to be able to sell some items and buy a madred's bloodrazor when I see the other team stacking health.


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Sakagami0

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Senior Member

07-28-2010

thanks


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JohnnySmash

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Senior Member

07-28-2010

Interesting idea but I think it would make it too easy to counter the enemy and make constant item management too important. Also if a team's strong players happen to lean towards magic or physical damage it would be too easy and fast to counter them with resists or armor.


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Darth Solo

Senior Member

07-28-2010

i personally think this would make it require less skill it would be like i buy AP in order for u to think im building AP then i sell u sell for armor i sell for AD then i think it would be back and forth and btw slash doesnt have AP ration for tyrn
so i hope they dont implant this


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Crazy Coward

Junior Member

07-28-2010

isn't the whole 50% sellback part of the strategy?

you can either spend money on low end items early game to have an advantage, or you can save up and gamble on the fact that you will get to late game with the crappy eq that you currently have.

If you decide to go with a certain item early on but end up realizing it's useless later on, it's your planning thats to blame. if buyback rates are high, there's no consequence to buying the wrong item.

Also this would require a lot of character rebalancing becuase farming characters are put at a disadvantage (because they can afford both the good stuff both earlier and later).

perhap more overlap between item combinations with an option to dissasemble?


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Sakagami0

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Senior Member

07-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Coward View Post
isn't the whole 50% sellback part of the strategy?

you can either spend money on low end items early game to have an advantage, or you can save up and gamble on the fact that you will get to late game with the crappy eq that you currently have.

If you decide to go with a certain item early on but end up realizing it's useless later on, it's your planning thats to blame. if buyback rates are high, there's no consequence to buying the wrong item.

Also this would require a lot of character rebalancing becuase farming characters are put at a disadvantage (because they can afford both the good stuff both earlier and later).

perhap more overlap between item combinations with an option to dissasemble?
By part of the strategy, do you mean everyone pretty much does the same thing every game?
I like your idea about more combinations/disassembles.


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Sakagami0

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Senior Member

07-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySmash View Post
Interesting idea but I think it would make it too easy to counter the enemy and make constant item management too important. Also if a team's strong players happen to lean towards magic or physical damage it would be too easy and fast to counter them with resists or armor.
Thats the point, to have a more dynamic game. Counter on counter on counter etc. not just I get raped and raped and raped or I pwn and keep pwning.


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RHINO Mk II

Senior Member

07-28-2010

Only if you make mejai's sellback 0%


Also, If your games aren't ending in 35-40 minutes, you're doing it wrong.


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imhuge

Senior Member

07-28-2010

your "problem" is only really relevant for a small number of items
also, sell rates are already at 70%; gold/10 items sell for 50% (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/learn/gameplay/gold)

you picked a really bad example with Blasting Wand and Giant's Belt since Blasting Wand can become a hybrid item (Guinsoo's), physical damage (Lich Bane), aura (Abyssal), magic damage (Void Staff), or raw AP (Zhonya's) and Giant Belt is fine sitting as Giant's Belt

item counters now aren't always strong but if you made sell back rate 90% you are gonna have people who completely switch their build to force enemies to rebuy their items (late game AP Yi swaps to a backdoor build with AD) and this would be really dumb to play
in some ways, this also makes itemization less skillful since you don't have to prepare for the enemies' offense/defense, you can just sellback and buy the appropriate items if you made a misjudgment

some items don't help kills/farm much but are very effective (in particular, defense stack) and high sell return just makes it easier to attain those builds (Last Whisper/Void Staff/Bloodrazor can't really counter super high armor+regen)

I already do things like buy potions with leftover gold since you only lose 11 gold after sellback; I usually have around 10 healing potions bought before 10 minutes and keep them until I need the slots


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