Malzahar and his ult

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Dr Coheed

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01-29-2013

This ult is one of the most broken abilities in the game. There is probably a good .5 or full second between when he activates it and when someone becomes suppressed with it. I get if Annie shot a passive Q at me before I click R that should break it. However if I cast it, Urgot should not then be able to cast his ult and ruin mine. Almost any targeted stun or auto attack stun can break this before they are suppressed. Hell I've been hook by the blitz I targeted with it after I started. This ability needs to make him immune to CC for at least the first half of the duration. That would fix this problem yet still allow it to be broken without making him invincible while doing it.

Part of me is really tempted to list all the ways this ult can be broken before people are "officially" suppressed but that would take forever...here goes anyway (these are assumed 1v1 fights, Malz vs his target).

Alistar can either Pulverize or Headbutt as the ability starts channel to cancel
Amumu can Bandage Toss or Ult as the ability starts channel to cancel
Ashe can Ult as the Ability starts channel to cancel
Blitzcrank can Hook, Pop, or Ult as the ability starts channel to cancel
Cass can Ult as the ability starts channel to cancel
Cho'gath can Q or W as the ability starts channel to cancel
Darius can E as the ability starts channel to cancel
Diana if in range can use her AoE pull as the ability starts channel to cancel
Draven can E as the ability starts channel to cancel

I could go on but I honestly don't want to since I'm already in tears since Malz is one of my favorite champs. His ult is probably more fragile than Kat or Nunu's in the long run; at least it feels that way.


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StormEagle5000

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoheedtheBeast View Post
This ult is one of the most broken abilities in the game. There is probably a good .5 or full second between when he activates it and when someone becomes suppressed with it. I get if Annie shot a passive Q at me before I click R that should break it. However if I cast it, Urgot should not then be able to cast his ult and ruin mine. Almost any targeted stun or auto attack stun can break this before they are suppressed. Hell I've been hook by the blitz I targeted with it after I started. This ability needs to make him immune to CC for at least the first half of the duration. That would fix this problem yet still allow it to be broken without making him invincible while doing it.

Part of me is really tempted to list all the ways this ult can be broken before people are "officially" suppressed but that would take forever...here goes anyway (these are assumed 1v1 fights, Malz vs his target).

Alistar can either Pulverize or Headbutt as the ability starts channel to cancel
Amumu can Bandage Toss or Ult as the ability starts channel to cancel
Ashe can Ult as the Ability starts channel to cancel
Blitzcrank can Hook, Pop, or Ult as the ability starts channel to cancel
Cass can Ult as the ability starts channel to cancel
Cho'gath can Q or W as the ability starts channel to cancel
Darius can E as the ability starts channel to cancel
Diana if in range can use her AoE pull as the ability starts channel to cancel
Draven can E as the ability starts channel to cancel

I could go on but I honestly don't want to since I'm already in tears since Malz is one of my favorite champs. His ult is probably more fragile than Kat or Nunu's in the long run; at least it feels that way.
I feel ya bro. Favorite champ too. Just gotta position super well and pray


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Jushiiro

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Riven continues to dash even though she's suppressed and since every single ability of hers seems to have a micro cc on it she'll certainly break the ult.


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SouL1ess

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomocity132 View Post
Malzahar's ult has 0 channel time before it comes out. It's not like Morgana's where you can miss it in that .5 channel before damage. Malzahar's suppression is the instant you click them. And then it channels for damage.
Malzahar ult is not instant. There is a cast animation and a channel animation.

Cast animation is when Malzahar leans back slightly before "shooting them eye lasers". It PROHIBITS the ability from being INSTANTLY CAST. As far as I know (since season 1), there should be a casting bar appearing before the channel bar, which lasts for approximately 0.15 seconds.

During the cast animation nothing happens. The skill does not suffer CD and no mana is subtracted.

Which brings the problem to the moment the casting animation finishes.

I am hypothesizing that when an animation plays in LoL (e.g. Autoattacks) starts playing, it must finish playing. Therefore, if udyr starts an autoattack animation a little bit before malzahar ult's casting animation finishes, the autoattack (which also has a delay before damage is applied, but animations MUST finish playing) will hit. And since udyr's stun is considered an on-attack effect (not on-hit because it goes through Jax dodge), the stun will apply and disrupt malzahar's ult.

I think this is the situation you are describing, and I don't think there are valid solutions to it. It seems to me Riot either has to re-code A LOT of game elements in order to fix this interaction, or Malzahar's ult has to be instant. But asking for Malz ult to be instant is like asking for Cass ult to be instant as well, which I honestly don't think will happen. And it also seems unlikely that Riot will re-code the game just to fix a champion interaction bug.

I would like it to be fixed or changed, but I don't know how a solution will work out.


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Wheatly

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

I've also been ulted by malz as singed and flipped him out after being suppressed


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March of Dimes

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatly View Post
I've also been ulted by malz as singed and flipped him out after being suppressed
Yeah, Singed can do the same thing to Galio ults too.


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Randomocity132

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouL1ess View Post
Malzahar ult is not instant. There is a cast animation and a channel animation.

Cast animation is when Malzahar leans back slightly before "shooting them eye lasers". It PROHIBITS the ability from being INSTANTLY CAST. As far as I know (since season 1), there should be a casting bar appearing before the channel bar, which lasts for approximately 0.15 seconds.

During the cast animation nothing happens. The skill does not suffer CD and no mana is subtracted.

Which brings the problem to the moment the casting animation finishes.

I am hypothesizing that when an animation plays in LoL (e.g. Autoattacks) starts playing, it must finish playing. Therefore, if udyr starts an autoattack animation a little bit before malzahar ult's casting animation finishes, the autoattack (which also has a delay before damage is applied, but animations MUST finish playing) will hit. And since udyr's stun is considered an on-attack effect (not on-hit because it goes through Jax dodge), the stun will apply and disrupt malzahar's ult.

I think this is the situation you are describing, and I don't think there are valid solutions to it. It seems to me Riot either has to re-code A LOT of game elements in order to fix this interaction, or Malzahar's ult has to be instant. But asking for Malz ult to be instant is like asking for Cass ult to be instant as well, which I honestly don't think will happen. And it also seems unlikely that Riot will re-code the game just to fix a champion interaction bug.

I would like it to be fixed or changed, but I don't know how a solution will work out.

The reason it's different from Cass's is because he doesn't have a wind-up time before he ults. He just begins ulting. Like the 2 other channeled suppressions, being Warwick's and Urgot's, they make the champion channeling stationary and unable to take any other actions for the whole duration of it, to get off a really strong effect. They are risky, powerful, there are not many of them, and they are all ultimates. They need to take precedence over other abilities already in motion.

Other examples would include a Warwick jumping to a Singed or Udyr with his ult, and them flinging or bear-stance stunning him, which is also absolutely absurd.


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Randomocity132

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01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by March of Dimes View Post
Yeah, Singed can do the same thing to Galio ults too.
This isn't a suppress. Granted, a taunt should make him stop casting fling, but still, slightly different circumstances.


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Randomocity132

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

bump


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Stefanov

Junior Member

01-29-2013

bump