Feels like Pure Casters are really weak versus Physical Carries

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Koslomac

Senior Member

10-18-2009

Pure casters are weak against targets that stack HP unless they stack HP themselves.


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Critical Error

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10-18-2009

I think the reason you see lots of Yi/Jax/Ashe is because compared to casters those heroes can just right click and still kill in most pub games. Compare this to Annie, who is one of my new favs, who really cant just right click and win. Annie has to always keep track of CDs as well as Pyro charges. You dont want to bust out a pyro single target when you can pop a pyro cone or tibbers.

Also, casters have to always watch their mana, most phys. dps dont really even need to worry about their mana. Like seriously, what does Yi need mana for besides popping ult in many cases? On the other hand, an Annie or a Lich without mana is basically SoL--so you dont spam away or let your Defile tick wastefully.


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Vichar

Senior Member

10-19-2009

Can't agree that casters are weaker than carries.

Consider Morgana. She's a caster, right? If she hits with Dark Binding, she can immediately pop her ultimate, following the melee attacker until he's stunned again. Then just tainted soil if the melee champion is still alive. If she has even decent AP, it's a dead melee pretty fast.

If you're saying that it takes more skill to be good with casters vs. melee carries, I might have to say that is true in some ways. For example, if you miss with Dark Binding, it's not going to go well...


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DarkenDragon

Senior Member

10-19-2009

I dont think theres a pure caster in the game that doesnt have an ability that helps escape in some form or another, actually I think every hero in the game has an escape method some how. you just gotta learn how to use it properly weither it be a blink/teleport ability, stun, or slow. and if you dont, theres always rylai's scepter to make your abilities a slow ability.

dont forget to look at passives as well such as annie's stun, I learned you can spam your shield ability to build up charges to make sure you got a stun available and that should help you escape.

also learning the skill to cast and move is always helpful, im not sure if all abilities work like this but I know that a handful of abilities does not stop your current action, so if your running away and you cast a spell on someone, you'll continue to run away after you done casting. so dont be afraid to cast on the run if your trying to get away, unless they're very close and casting that spell wont do much since it might stop you for a second or two to cast the ability.


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ShadowOrigin

Senior Member

10-19-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykomyke View Post
I played two games with Janna tonight, one as somewhat DPS, the other as full on support. I didn't expect to do GOOD dps but at the same time I expected to be able to contribute. Did a third game with Anivia the Cryophoenix....and felt completely useless.
Champion selection is also part of the problem here.

Anivia is harder to master, but can be extremely useful when she is mastered.

Janna is just plain useless; you may see her a few times climbing up, but don't expect to ever see her again come mid-range, most likely.

As for the rest, including the title, I agree with others: pure casters are some of the only counters to some of the physical carries in games.


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khaltep

Member

10-19-2009

I don't mean to be an elitist jerk, but as you play more games and are with more experienced players, you'll see a lot more casters...I'm not uber leet by any means, but I see pure casters in almost every game. There are only a few pure aggressive casters, and they all provide excellent control and dps, and they do it at range and in bursts, making them extremely effective throughout the game if the team plays cohesively and with a good composition, ie actually having a tank hero, some manner of support, and decent control abilities. Again, at the risk of appearing a patronizing elitist, there are a lot of useful guides on the guides forum that were very helpful for me in improving my play as caster heroes.


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Aknar

Senior Member

10-19-2009

most carries are dead meat if they can't get close enough to pound you to death


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Aknar

Senior Member

10-19-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vichar View Post
Can't agree that casters are weaker than carries.

Consider Morgana. She's a caster, right? If she hits with Dark Binding, she can immediately pop her ultimate, following the melee attacker until he's stunned again. Then just tainted soil if the melee champion is still alive. If she has even decent AP, it's a dead melee pretty fast.

If you're saying that it takes more skill to be good with casters vs. melee carries, I might have to say that is true in some ways. For example, if you miss with Dark Binding, it's not going to go well...
1: I agree with the last part of your post

2: the answer why morgana can kill any carry is because she is a big tanky spell-thrower,due to her frustrating spell shield and any decent player will get soul shroud and banshee's veil on her,think a little how much time you need to solo an enemy,in the time you need to channel your ult a smart veigar needs and mostly will already kill his target


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Dev Remming

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Senior Member

10-19-2009

Kassadin (Since no one has talked about him).

As kassadin I have very rarely felt weak against physical Heroes, Cause lets face it, With blink silence and a slow They can't stop me. And what happens if more should come out for a gank and I get stunned? I blow Cleanse and blink away thus making them waste what ever skills they started (I'm had an nunu and amumu both run in, Start their ultimates while a ryze came down and caught me and started his ultimate, Just to have me cleanse out of the Bind and blink away unharmed thus wasting their 3 ultimates).

Even against a carry I'm not useful, But first let me say one thing.

A carry is a carry for a reason, any 'GOOD' carry will run some kind of survivability which will probably mean they will be the Tank character who stacked alot of health and Magic Resistance. This way they have a better chance of taking out at least 2 squishy dpsers before they die or have to run away. That is just how the game works. A lone Mage is not meant to be able to take a carry by himself, Though if you are good enough you can either waste their time while your team pushes or you can just be bad ass and kill them.

With that said let me continue with Kassadin vs carry while being alone.

I already said I have 3 control abilites. What do I do if I sense a big move coming? I rift away, At level 16-18 I do not need to be stingy with my mana, and if I'm ready to make my My I silence then, Rift and slow them as they try to run and continue rift walking for big damage. I have killed carries by myself as a Pure AP Build kassadin. It is not that hard.
~~~

Now this is just for kassadin I won't/Cannot give opinions on other heros Other then Morganna because I haven't played 10 games+ with them. (I have played more then 10 as our little angel and most likely 50 games+ as our Favorite Rift walker).

My opinion on Morganna, She's a support, honestly I find Morganna to be a better helper then a killer. Sure she can have the power to get kills but I find myself sheilding others to keep them alive or stopping fleeing heros in their tracks so that our carries can get the kill and get big.

Honestly if the game is Full DPS+ Tank w/out Casters vs Dps+Casters/Support+Tank.

The support will win every time because they have better answers (this is assuming that both teams are good/equal).

Its just all about knowing your role in a fight and what you can and can not do.


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Critical Error

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10-19-2009

I would also consider Morgana a support rather than a "caster." I mean, sure she basically onyl does casting when playing, but I feel the term caster goes to the Annie, Liche, Phoenix types. Morgana does pump out damage, but really, do you look for Morgana's that add to team damage, or the ones that save peoples asses with shield, root with binding, or stun with ult? Latter, am I right?


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